It's Time To Stomp On The Left
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-03-25 22:45
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
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It's Time To Stomp On The Left
 

There are times that blatant and outrageous pandering just go too far.

This is one of them.

Sen. Chuck Schumer is calling on the Justice Department to investigate so-called "Stand Your Ground" laws following the fatal shooting of an unarmed Florida teen.

The law, a version of which was enacted in Florida in 2005, allows for individuals to use deadly force -- even outside their home -- if they feel threatened.

Since the shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, Republican leaders have called the killing a tragedy but argue that the law in question did not actually apply to this case.

Still, Schumer wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder on Sunday that the laws themselves should be investigated.

"These laws seem to be encouraging vigilantism by allowing individuals to use deadly force as a first resort," Schumer, D-N.Y., said in a statement.

The Republicans are right -- Schumer is wrong.

Look, it sucks that Martin is dead, ok?  Let's get that out right up front.

But this is not as clear as some people would like you to believe. 

When the Sanford police department responded to the 911 calls they found Zimmerman with injuries and Martin apparently deceased.  This is from the original incident report which is able to be found with 30 seconds worth of effort on The Internet and is an official police public record:

The focus folks is in one place and one place only -- was the use of force justified. 

That's it.

The facts as we currently know them support that Zimmerman was attacked from behind, was flat on his back, was assaulted from the top and not free to escape. That's consistent with both witness reports and physical evidence as noted in the above report.  I note that both former Governor Bush and the author of the "Stand Your Ground" law have both said that the Castle Doctrine is inapplicable to this circumstance and they're correct; an altercation in which you are physically prevented from leaving by someone sitting on you after knocking you to the ground removes all consideration of that law from the decision process and the legal evaluation.

That there are contrary witness reports is not surprising; if you've ever looked at reports from a particular "simple" incident such as a traffic accident there are frequently very different things reported by the various witnesses.  The job of the investigating agency is to filter this information by both assessing the credibility of the witnesses and the physical evidence.  That which is contrary to the physical evidence can't have happened, no matter how many people claim it did.  A couple of years ago I was a witness to a horrific traffic accident that was described very differently than what happened by one of the drivers and a couple of other witnesses -- unfortunately for them the physical evidence (skid marks on the roadway and point of impact) were inconsistent with what they claimed they saw, but entirely-consistent with what I saw and reported.  The young driver (who they tried to pin the accident on) was in fact not at fault as the other vehicle emerged from between two trucks in a line and entered his lane outside of an intersection leaving him less than a car length to react -- it was literally impossible for him to have avoided the collision as the distance covered by a vehicle during the best-case human reaction time exceeded the distance between the vehicles at the lawful speed for that section of road.  I suspect my testimony, which I was happy to provide in written form, saved him from at least a chargeable accident and perhaps a suspended or revoked license.

In this case Zimmerman had a documented physical injury on the back of his head that was bleeding when he was "cuffed and stuffed", along with bleeding from his nose.  It was also apparent from physical evidence that he was on his back on wet ground (grass stains and water on the BACK of his shirt.)  Reports are that Martin was shot in the front of his body, not in the back, so he was facing the weapon when it discharged.

These are physical facts that to the best of my knowledge are not in controversy.

If Zimmerman was the aggressor how did he get injured on the back of his head with sufficient force to cause bleeding?  Further, if he was on top of Martin how did Zimmerman's shirt get grass stains on the back?  Such claims are inconsistent with the physical evidence.

The media has refused to present a reasonably-recent picture of Martin.  There are multiple ones floating around on the Internet; one I've seen is of highly-questionable provenance and thus I discount it's probative value until and unless it is validated as real.  But there's likely a reason that all of the pictures presented thus far are four years or more old and show Martin when he was 13 -- and not now, when he was 17.  This sort of blatant "in your face" distortion ought to be ringing everyone's alarm bells at high volume -- that it isn't is very disturbing.

Then we have the call for blatantly unlawful action yesterday from the "New Black Panthers", which literally asked for 5,000 black men to search for and kidnap Zimmerman and issued a reward for anyone who did so.  I will remind everyone that kidnapping is a federal and state felony carrying a potential life sentence in prison.  If this is not part and parcel of an attempt to incite a race war, would someone please tell me what is?

The new Black Panther Party offered a bounty of $10,000 Saturday for the “capture” of a Florida neighborhood watch captain who killed unarmed teen Trayvon Martin.

“An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,” leader Mikhail Muhammad said after announcing the reward for George Zimmerman at a protest in Sanford, Fla.

Muhammad called on 5,000 black men to mobilize and capture the neighborhood watch volunteer.

“If the government won’t do the job, we’ll do it,” Muhammad said, leading chants that included “freedom or death” and “justice for Trayvon.”

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/black-panther-rage-10g-capture-trayvon-killer-article-1.1050370#ixzz1q9lAhtk5

If you, I, or anyone else did this we'd be facing a federal investigation and possible listing as a domestic terrorist organization right here and now.  But this organization was caught on camera in the last election threatening voters with violence -- a federal offense -- and yet our current administration refused to investigate or prosecute.

Assuming the above is indeed what happened then the sole remaining question is whether or not Zimmerman had a justifiable fear that he was about to suffer serious physical injury or death.  If so under Florida Statutes and any reasonable ethical and moral code his use of defensive force was lawful and proper.  Simply put you are never required to submit to your own death by an assailant and those who argue otherwise in a political context must be run out of town on a rail as their statements are an explicit denial of your right to life and therefore constitute advocacy of the overthrow of the Constitution via extralegal means (since there is no lawful means by which an unalienable right can be extinguished!)

If the assault did not rise to that level then his use of defensive force was not lawful and some form of manslaughter or unlawful homicide occurred.

In the general sense a fist fight does not rise to the level of felony assault.  However, if you are on the ground after being knocked down and your assailant mounts you and starts pummeling your face or body such that you cannot escape or effectively fend him off there comes a point where that line is indeed crossed and the use of force in defense is both lawful and proper.

If the evidence changes so will my opinion and there is both a DOJ and State Grand Jury investigating the matter.  Everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocence, including Mr. Zimmerman.  At present the physical evidence buttress both his statements and those of witnesses that he was attacked from behind, fell to the ground and was repeatedly struck by Martin who was on top of him.  Until physical evidence emerges or a credible claim of events arises that is consistent with the physical evidence and leads to a different conclusion what I see is a witch-hunt being exploited to both attempt to deny a man his due process rights and abrogate the right of every American (and indeed every person) to lawful and proper self-defense.

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Snooze
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Schumer, of couse, is especially qualified to be a spokesman for the moral high ground on this because NY is just so perfect a state for others to emulate. smiley

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Xqqme
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Perhaps if we had some level headed, reasonable, rational leaders to rein in the mob rather excite the dumb masses and unleash them, we could progress.
The worst place to try a case is in the court of public opinion.
Daveincsa
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The problem I have with Zimmerman is that 911 told him to stop following the kid. He should have listened to the cops.
Gamma
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I'll say it now. This admin wants race riots this summer and will probably get them. Then, 0bama will climb atop a self-created pedestal and seek to calm the waters. There's plenty to distract from $4+ gasoline and anyone doubting that it'll be pulled out is quite naive, IMO.

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This stuff we're going through, this is nothing compared to the Middle Ages.
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Crzymorse
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I think we should wait for the facts to come out. I remember Richard Jewel, another guy that wanted to be a police officer that lived with parents that was falsely accused of the Olympic bombing in Altanta by the media. Then we should remember the Duke lacrosse case and the made up rape. The media publicly tried that one as well and lost big time.

It's seems Sharpton and the new black panthers use these tragic events as fundraisers which is disgusting and if Obama had any balls would call it out and easily put an end to the race baiting.
BTW -Zimmerman looks as white as Tiger Woods looks asian.

5755hsa
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"Still, Schumer wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder on Sunday that the laws themselves should be investigated."

Schumer = hipocrite
Holder = empty suit
Both of these *******s should be investigated, not the laws.

They can't even procesute the obvious corruption happening in the financial industry, now they feel this should take precedence as it would be wrong to let people defend themselves.

IDIOTS !

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Mikeit83
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Watch UFC? Hit someone hard enough on the front of the face (zimmerman had broken nose) and the back of your head gets busted up too.

Besides all that- zimmerman should have never confronted the individual. Zimmerman was on voluntary neighborhood watch- neighborhood had tons of break ins and issues. He saw martin and he thought he was suspicious due to his behavior. Fine. Call the cops. Let them do the leg work. Dont follow the kid or ask him questions. I know I would be confrontational if someone walked up to me and asked me wtf I was doing in the neighborhood.

But I 100% agree with you- this is a tragedy that appears to be made worse by the media TRYING to inflame the emotions of already emotional people.


Unedited 911 tape.

And here is the interview with zimmermans friend. His friend stated zimmerman made contact and confronted Martin. This was after chasing down martin (literally running after each other) http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/vi....

Landman
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Hmmm.....that's interesting. I must have missed the press release where the DOJ and the Admin. condemn the $10K "Dead or Alive" offer issued by the New Black Panthers. I wonder if that is illegal, terroristic, or inciting violence?

We all see where this is going. TPB wants rioting and hate. They don't seem to have an interest in doing the right thing.

It is very sad to see what is happening in this country.
Mikeit83
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This is the new generations Rodney King- mark my words. Couple this with other "people in the street" movements and this summer will get nasty!
Asimov
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The reason they're only showing pictures of him as a 12-13 year old is because he has gold teeth and gang tattoos now.

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"The problem I have with Zimmerman is that 911 told him to stop following the kid. He should have listened to the cops."

Why? Did the cops know something was particularly dangerous about the situation, but didn't tell Zimmerman? If Trevan had attacked a responding officer instead, might he be any less dead? Or, perhaps it was Abandon Your Neighborhood to Suspicious Characters and Hide in Basement Week in Florida but Zim never got the memo?

I think when it's all said and done it will be a simple episode of an unarmed man attacking an armed man. The reason for the altercation will have something to do with the shooting victim not appreciative of being considered a suspect by the shooter (who would?). Such a personal offense is not, in most parts of society and under the law, a reason for initiating physical force; you can't punch a guy who disses you.

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There is absolutely no evidence that he continued to follow the suspect. In fact in the 911 call he made he stated he lost him right after he was advised not to follow.
Besides that, who does the 911 operator think he is. Were they there? NO. It was his neighborhood. It was his call as to weather to follow and ensure the safety of his neighbors. The 911 operator is not a magistrate. The 911 operator has no authority to order anybody to do anything. There is no way to know whether or not the unknown 6 foot hoodie wearing stranger didn’t mean anybody any harm. How does following him constitute any form of infringement? He never said he would confront the stranger. He only stated he was watching him so he could lead the police to him. The reason he was on the phone with cops at the time. This speaks to intent in the best way. He was diligently attempting to lead the police to the suspect.

Perhaps you should listen to the whole unedited 911 call I think you will change you mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgR7gCxXQ....

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Mikeit83
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Its pretty clear Zimmerman made contact with Martin. Pretty sure it was after the 911 call (since he didnt mention it to the dispatcher). Zimmerman asked him what his reason was for being in the neighborhood.

Again- being neighborhood watch doesnt mean you are an LEO and you have no authority. For what ever reason- martin and zimmerman got into a physical altercation- zimmerman got physically injured (broken nose and cuts)- martin caught a 9mm.

Zimmerman was carrying a 9mm keltec (thats not usually a gun you carry in an external holster. I am not familiar with FL CCW laws- but in Virginia- you cant be an aggressor in an altercation and you have to employ a reasonable attempt to get out of the situation if at all possible. Zimmerman should have just called the cops and waited for them to show up... not chase Martin through the complex.
Christiangustafson
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This is going to get much, much worse as we head into the Long Emergency.

"The United States is 3000-mile wide Yugoslavia."

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Genesis
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There's no evidence that Martin 'chased' him and in fact there's a witness who says that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

There is no duty to retreat in Florida in any place where you are lawfully entitled to be (your own neighborhood certainly qualifies) but even if there was in this particular situation it's immaterial as the witness statements backed by physical evidence says that Zimmerman was mounted by Martin after being knocked down. At that point he cannot get out of the situation.

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Morla
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What was the kid suspected of though? It may well be that the killing was in self defense, but even then Zimmerman may have been a paranoid or racist jerk wasting the time of the police. If it WAS self defense that would make Trayvon an overreacting, violent jerk.. Given the circumstances here I doubt Zimmerman smells like a rose, though being paranoid or a racist or an ******* or whatever is not a crime.

Except for that Ravi guy, apparently where he's concerned being a jerk is a much more serious crime than invasion of privacy.

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Fear of govt IS the government.. Statism is a pack of unbacked threats; If govt gets out of control, ignore it and go about life as you see fit. Where's your crown, King Nothing?
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Morla,
Zimmerman thought he looked like a criminal looking for a house or car to break into. As it turns out Zimmerman was right, he just didn't know that Trayvon was a violent criminal.
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There is no doubt that the two made contact. There is absolutely no evidence so far that Zimmerman initiated it. Please provide a link or any evidenced you have to back up that ascertain.
Once again any citizen has the right, nay the duty to watch out for his or her fellow citizen. Need I remind you that whether you agree or not Mr. Zimmerman has the same right to affect an arrest as the police.
I ask you what would you have him do if the outcome were different? What if the outcome were an child was killed by the unknown hoodie wearing stranger? What if the stranger broke into a home and was discovered by a screaming child. What would you say to Zimmerman if he told you he saw the stranger and went home locked the door, and called the police? What if the child was your own? How would you feel about Zimmerman then? He could have prevented it, but he decided to cover his own ass and ran home to call the cops?
Could Zimmerman have handled it different? I have no idea, I for one would have not run home and called the cops. I would not let the unknown suspect out of my sight until the cops arrived. It is the responsible thing to do.

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"FACT: WHEN THE DRAFT OF YOUR VESSEL EXCEEDS THE DEPTH OF THE WATER, YOU ARE MOST ASSUREDLY... AGROUND!"

Vernonb
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What makes me the angriest is all the racist rabble as Al Sharpton and others- especially those working for Obama administration-attempting to create a mob psychology on the issue BEFORE all the facts can be clearly discerned.

Last time I checked it was against the law to make a contract 'killing' for an individual and this is exactly what these 'black panther' scum actually desire.

This reminds me of the same racist mess Obama created in his first year by going on the air and proclaiming the policy acted stupidly with the professor in Massachusetts once again BEFORE all the facts could be discerned.

Anyone know if the dead youth in Florida had a previous criminal history?

I'm still waiting on all the facts but I'm sick of the the O-vomit administration attempting to make a crime of 'defending oneself while white!'

Eric Holder is more than an empty suit. He is a willing accomplice.



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Mikeit83
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Yeah, from my research- I believe martin did mount zimmerman.

Take Martin's girlfriends testimony with a grain of salt if you want- but she was on the phone with him during this ordeal and Trayvon said he was being chased.

-In the 911 call- you can clearly hear Zimmerman running (wind and panting) towards Martin.

-We dont know the exact series of events after 911 call- but we have some info to fill the gaps.

According to the Police report- it was 1915 in the day 7:15pm. I think thats still semi-dusk in florida yeah?

Martin's girlfriend stated that Trayvon was asked by zimmerman what he was doing there. Also- zimmermans friend also confirms that. So that means the two made contact and exchanged words.

Trayvon, arguably related to gangs due to his facebook picture about being a "made ni%%a" and repping "waters ave"- probably eventually confronted Zimmerman for following/running after him. This led to physical confrontation.

Zimmerman got his butt handed to him as evidenced by his injuries. Zimmerman had grass stains and water on his back- and the "secret" witness confirms that zimmerman was getting pummeled by martin. (red shirt on bottom, hoodie on top).

I imagine after getting clobbered, zimmerman felt threatened and pulled his 9mm and shot him.


So-

that sounds like a good fill in the blanks session. Assuming this is true- how does florida law dictate reactions and responsibilities in this situation?

Obviously martin posed no threat to any specific person or zimmerman himself. Zimmerman had a hunch about suspicious activity. Fine, but does that give him a right to do anything more than call the cops?


***evidence of zimmerman confronting trayvon*** ===http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/vi....

Morla
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Quote:
even if there was in this particular situation it's immaterial as the witness statements backed by physical evidence says that Zimmerman was mounted by Martin after being knocked down. At that point he cannot get out of the situation.
Mixed martial arts gives great examples of how to "win" a fight, the problem is that without a referee it is a playbook to dominate and destroy another human being. That mounted position is often the end of a UFC bout, as the ref is forced to stop the fight to prevent unnecessary injury to the unfortunate defender. It CAN be escaped by a trained fighter, but often even a trained fighter cannot. Thus if Zimmerman WAS in that position and was being pummeled severely deadly force would have been appropriate IMO. Any given punch could be a KO leading to being beaten to death while unconscious. When being assaulted you can't really know how far your attacker is willing to go..

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Fear of govt IS the government.. Statism is a pack of unbacked threats; If govt gets out of control, ignore it and go about life as you see fit. Where's your crown, King Nothing?
Morla
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Quote:
Zimmerman thought he looked like a criminal looking for a house or car to break into. As it turns out Zimmerman was right, he just didn't know that Trayvon was a violent criminal
Trayvon may not have known that Trayvon was a violent criminal. Maybe he saw Zimmerman as a jerk profiling him as he tried to walk down a public street. Maybe Zimmerman really was doing just that, but it's still no excuse to assault him in a society of laws. Racism is NOT ILLEGAL, even hate crime legislation, often controversial, is only applicable when a CRIME has been committed. Self defense is not a crime so if that defense holds up Zimmerman should walk, but I'd need further evidence to believe he's a nice guy.

(edit)
Quote:
Obviously martin posed no threat to any specific person or zimmerman himself. Zimmerman had a hunch about suspicious activity. Fine, but does that give him a right to do anything more than call the cops?
Any young man who plays football or other contact sports poses a credible threat to most "average" people if he wishes to. I admit Zimmerman may have been a paranoid ass calling the cops for no reason, but technically wasting police time is not a high crime, and being an ass is completely legal. To say Trayvon "couldn't" have been a threat is silly though, men have killed or maimed one another with their bare hands for aeons, the young and strong are weapons unto themselves if they're inclined to hurt someone.

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Fear of govt IS the government.. Statism is a pack of unbacked threats; If govt gets out of control, ignore it and go about life as you see fit. Where's your crown, King Nothing?

Iamedwardteach
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“Zimmerman had a hunch about suspicious activity. Fine, but does that give him a right to do anything more than call the cops? “


No Zimmerman didn’t only have a right to follow and ensure the safety of his fellow citizens, I say he had a duty. If he truly thought that the unknown stranger posed a threat to anybody, he had a duty to do whatever he could to help those. Including leading the police to the unknown suspect. So that they could determine whether he was an actual threat or not.
For a personal note my neighbor saw an unknown person run through his back yard. He grabbed his shotgun and followed. Told his wife to call the cops. He saw the large black male enter the next door neighbors house. He knew that the owner was not home, but he also knew that his 13 year old daughter was home alone. He entered the house after the suspect and found him ascending the stairs. He leveled the shotgun on the suspect and ordered him to the ground.. When the police arrived they found a knife and a 38 pistol on the suspect. The suspect was on parole for rape, amongst other charges. I guess he should have stayed in his house, and just called the cops. Never knowing where the suspect went. He could have read about the******in the paper knowing he was the kind of neighbor you advocate. Your kind of thinking is what is wrong with this country. “ I called the cops that’s where my responsibility ends”


I am out of posts so I will answer here.

That’s nonsense. How did Zimmerman know the outcome? The same as my neighbor. They had no idea what the outcome would be. My neighbor had no Idea that the suspect was an armed rapist. He is 68 years old with a bad ticker. He was concerned that the person was up to no good so he followed, hoping the cops would arrive soon. They both had the intestinal fortitude to take a stand and follow the unknown suspicious individual. The outcome can never be known. The only thing that is known is do you get involved and follow up on a suspicious individual, or do you go home and call the cops? It all comes down to what Zimmerman thought. Did he think that the person he saw posed a threat. If he did he had a responsibility to follow and do what he could to ensure the safety of his neighbors. What if Martin broke into a house and was confronted with a screaming child and he killed her? What if the child was yours? Would you want Zimmerman to go home and call the cops or help her? Once again the outcome can never be known. The only question is do we get involved with our own defense or do we wait for the cops? When seconds count the police are only minutes away.

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"FACT: WHEN THE DRAFT OF YOUR VESSEL EXCEEDS THE DEPTH OF THE WATER, YOU ARE MOST ASSUREDLY... AGROUND!"

Mikeit83
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Martin and your large black rapist guy are two different scenarios.

Should zimmerman have gone chasing martin with a shotgun just for being in the neighborhood and matching the profile of youngsters doing B&E's? No-

Martin had not done anything to warrant anything other than a curious glance from a vigilante watchman.

It was 7:15pm is when the cops arrived..still duskish in Florida I believe.


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