| User Info
| Student Loans Are Predatory: Told You So in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Fraudster
Posts: 4176
Incept: 2011-05-10
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Quote:Deception is therefore necessary, either through omission or commission, in order to "sell" the product. If you fairly disclosed, for example, that this much debt would basically destroy the graduate's ability to buy a house for ten years after graduation would they still sign up? Remind me again which crime this might fall under? Oh yes, I seem to remember that this might qualify as fraud.
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Drb
Posts: 195
Incept: 2011-01-02
TX
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Besides government not guaranteeing student loans, universities should be required to post statistical information about recent graduates, that is, how much they earn on average for a given major, how many got jobs in their field of study, how many are unemployed etc. But as we all know neither of that will happen.
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Rln2433
Posts: 67
Incept: 2009-02-03
Virginia
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What about the parents of the students and them the students themselves? Why are they constantly getting a pass here? If you as a parent haven't explained the facts of life, including money and consequences for one's choices in life then you suck. And if you as a student want to embrace liberal bull**** that says you can***** away 4 years of your life obtaining a degree in Womyn's or "X" Cultural Studies then that's fine and good but being an adult free to drink, smoke, screw means there are other responsibilities that go with that as well. Debt slavery sucks but no one forces anyone to sign a college loan app.
Ask the soldier humping a ruck after his tenth mile if he feels sorry for these adults and the choices they made.
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Ramthebulls
Posts: 10860
Incept: 2007-09-24
Queens, NY
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Out of a 3 bedroom apartment I lived in during my college years, one of us has already emigrated to Taiwan, I am well into making preparations for my emigration to Chile, and the third of us is considering heading to Asia as well. Hey Boomers, you broke the system, and we ain't going to be your damn tax slaves. Go **** yourselves.  Signed, some well-paid 23 year-olds.
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Umbrage is like love. No matter how much someone takes, there's always more for you to give.
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Jonesapple10
Posts: 379
Incept: 2010-11-09
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average debt $76,000, maybe a job out of college for $30K? or no job? I came out of school with 10K in debt(what I couldn't pay from working full time) and paid it off within three years and it was hard(after deferring the first year). I also made more than 30K my first year when things were way cheaper.
The disclosure should be in 50 font stating, "the chance of you being able to re-pay this debt is slim to none"
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2666
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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From the article...
"Eight percent of respondents in the survey said they “strongly agreed” and 26 percent “agreed” that they would be able to pay off all their federal and private student loans."
We have a 74% problem here folks...
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Ramthebulls
Posts: 10860
Incept: 2007-09-24
Queens, NY
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The scary thing is that it is expected that young folks are supposed to make up an additional amount of the government's tax base due to demographic concerns.
If young people are A) increasingly unemployed B) increasingly indebted, and C) increasingly taxed ... then how on earth are things such as home sales supposed to recover anytime soon.
This is a particularly disturbing problem with our current demographic outlook combined with our appalling social welfare programs.
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Umbrage is like love. No matter how much someone takes, there's always more for you to give.
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Genesis
Posts: 130807
Incept: 2007-06-26
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They won't. It's simple.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Mdm
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-13
South Florida
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Quote:Besides government not guaranteeing student loans, universities should be required to post statistical information about recent graduates, that is, how much they earn on average for a given major, how many got jobs in their field of study, how many are unemployed etc. But as we all know neither of that will happen. Most schools do post these statistics, the problem is the statistics are completely goosed and in some cases even flat out fabricated. The statistics are just another layer of the fraud. I took out the bulk of my student loans after I received a degree in finance. I fully understood the terms (other than maybe not completely understanding/appreciating the non-dischargability aspect). Unfortunately, I relied on the salary statistics in making my decision (which were about $25k higher than reality). I can afford my loan payments, but I damn well thought I would have a lot more disposable income after making those payments. |
2dogs
Posts: 2941
Incept: 2009-03-25
Land of the Lost
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Quote:Almost two-thirds of U.S. student-loan borrowers misunderstood or were surprised by aspects of their loans or the student-loan process, a study shows. Um... yeah... because their reading comprehension skills suck. Intentionally dumbed down in our school system so the elite can loot more debt slaves.
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You can't defeat the combined effects of massive voter fraud, the Free **** Army, and the entire bought and paid for media complex. This nation is done.
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Randy123
Posts: 5789
Incept: 2008-09-24
Earth
Online
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An absolute sin what we've done to our youth. Disgraceful.
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China is the Enemy. Wake Up.
New Normal. Same As The Old Awful.
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Joe
Posts: 1233
Incept: 2008-06-18
Boston, MA
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Quote:If you fairly disclosed, for example, that this much debt would basically destroy the graduate's ability to buy a house for ten years after graduation would they still sign up? Ten years should everything go *right*. One prolonged spell of unemployment or a degree in basketweaving and that debt will never be fully repaid. Also, the real estate pumpers never account for generation debt. Without household formation, who exactly is going to be buying starter houses (the few that still exist)? |
Bertdilbert
Posts: 2666
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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Ramthebulls,
Yes, they will not be able to buy a house, which means the people who had selling their large house and downsizing as part of their retirement plan, are not going to be able to retire as early as they thought, which will keep youth unemployment high. This in turn will translate to low wages for grads.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Blurtman
Posts: 563
Incept: 2009-01-24
Banned
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I attended a top 10 MBA program in the late '80's, and knew enough to limit my loan burden to an absolute minimum through living frugally and working part time. Even then the adminstration totally misrepresented the placement rate and starting salaries of the graduates. This data is never audited and there are currently no penalties for misrepresentation that I am aware of. And as is necessary for all scams to success, the students really want to believe.
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I have a reading comprehension problem and the owner banned me for repeatedly displaying it after being warned.
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12bolt
Posts: 161
Incept: 2009-08-24
Blueridge
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Quote:the statistics are completely goosed and in some cases even flat out fabricated This^^^ When I went to school I knew I wanted to do something in engineering but didn't have a lot of direction. I read through the school's curriculum guide carefully and picked the engineering discipline that I thought best suited my aptitudes. IN the description of each major was a section of employment prospects. It said "presently the demand for Industrial Engineers greatly exceeds the supply:. When I graduated 4 years later in 1992, NOT ONE COMPANY was interviewing for IE majors. Not one. It took me 9 months to find a job in a factory. 9 months later I, along with the entire mfg staff, got laid off so they could move the ****ing thing to Mexico. Thanks NAFTA, Congress, Clinkton, and all the rest. That free trade **** was so good for America! I will never forget the 3 way debate between Clinton, Bush (the elder) and Perot prior to the '92 Presidential election. Both of those shyster mother****ers sat there laughing when Perot broke it down and said NAFTA and free trade in general would destroy America's mfg sector. They knew he was right but stood to make a lot of money by bamboozling the American public. I voted for Perot. |
Disparage
Posts: 48
Incept: 2009-12-14
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Karl Denninger said, Quote:One point those of you who have been involved in this little scheme ought to keep in mind -- it will be these graduates who will, in 20 or 30 years, determine whether you get Medicare and Social Security, not to mention what your tax bracket looks like. So Genesis are you suggesting this nation will be able to afford to pay Social Security and Medicare for the next 30 years? This would also suggest that there wont be an economic collapse anytime soon, because if there is another economic collapse (anything near 2008's collapse) SS, medicare or student loans wont much matter now will they.... |
Mannfm11
Posts: 3557
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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$76,000? I would guess these people really weren't college material? 5% on $76,000 is $3800 a year, so interest only is over $300 a month. Figure a 10 year payoff at zero interest is close to $650 per year. I don't have an am schedule on me right now, but something tells me the payments would have to be a minimum $800 a month and probably higher. Idiots think you borrow $1500 a month for 4 years and pay it off at $200 a month for the next 10 years?
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Nuke_engineer
Posts: 2700
Incept: 2007-08-19
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Make sure the Bloomberg folks are also put under the bus as well, my educated children...
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Trading and investing is understanding about people, emotions and corruption of government, corporations, banks and people using propaganda, lies, mathematics and bankster logic working against you.
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Jackl
Posts: 2240
Incept: 2008-01-17
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Always said it was a scam since I was a teen. They always spouted ridiculous salary numbers for every profession, every position, and entry level was soooo much better than a non-college graduate workmen.
Real World experience: Only people with high specialized skills get high pay. If you have more than a dozen people in your class, guess what? Your career is not highly specialized. Someone will always take the same job, cheaper. This will become increasingly so as wage/job arbitration continues.
Real World Experience: That guy who didn't go to college? Or maybe only did a years worth of certification/vocational training? Maybe for the last 4 years he worked through rough employment market, and proved his worth at a local business. He makes as much if not more then you do, sans the 20k-100k debt. With more references, better job security, and actual experience rather then a piece of paper.
Real World Experience: It's all about the money, and less about your future. Stop trusting people who do not give a flying **** about you.
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Sparticlebrane
Posts: 287
Incept: 2009-08-25
Banned
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It might be worth it to actually read the information straight from the study, instead of through Bloomberg's filter. Quote:Originally on pages 7 and 8 of the study:
YI also gathered information on the respondents’ estimated amounts of student debt. The most striking feature of the student loan amounts the respondents reported is how large the debt amounts are across all borrower groups. As shown in Table 1, debt amounts for those with federal loans, private loans, and dual borrowers varied, with averages of $58,000, $62,000, and $92,000, respectively. Taking all borrowers into account (i.e., across borrower groups and higher education level), the average amount owed is $76,000. As compared to the distribution of student borrowers’ loan amounts in the United States, about 5 percent have balances at or above $75,000 (Figure 1). The average respondent to the survey therefore falls into this “top 5 percent” of borrowers by student debt volume.
While these figures are informative, there is a large amount of variability in the debt amounts reported by respondents at different levels of higher education. For bachelor’s degree recipients, the national average amount owed is estimated at just over $25,000 but the average for respondents to YI’s survey ranged between $34,000 and $69,000 depending on the loan type(s) borrowed (Table 2). Estimates of debt levels for all graduate degree recipients with different degree types in the U.S. are around $40,000 for masters, $60,000 for doctoral, and $99,000 for professional,36 while the average amount of debt for respondents in the survey with a graduate or professional degree was $93,000 (Table 3). In 2007-2008, only 7 percent of graduate degree recipients in the US had debt levels higher than $80,000,37 $13,000 less than the average amount reported by all graduate degree recipients in the survey. (bolding by me) So basically, people who answered the survey were likely to have much higher debt loads than average. |
Flaps10
Posts: 5177
Incept: 2008-10-17
seattle
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Two real life situations near me:
1) A young woman who works for me. Engineer, sharp kid. Admitted in her first week that she had over $200K in student loan debt and it will end up costing her $400K with interest. She makes a good wage but lives cheap so she can pay it off.
2) My oldest son. Went to a Community College with straight transfer to UW. Straight A student, has always gotten grants and scholarships. By dedicating time to applying for every scholarship a swinging dork can qualify for, he's pretty much had a full boat ride.
Now in his third year and in the four year school the tap is turning off. The financial aid folks tell him he'll need to take out loans. The initial award letter from the fall indicated he was in fine shape, but the clawed back his work study job and some grant money. Dangled carrot it would appear.
Kid sells his plasma twice per week and eats peanut butter sandwiches. His degree (physics/computer science) will pay, but he'll still be living like a student for years to come if he's got to take out loans for the remainder.
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"Better to die on your feet than live on your knees"
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Anti
Posts: 4303
Incept: 2007-10-09
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I know an older woman, very sharp, able and absolutely no reading comprehension problem who had managed 60 years or so of life without debt problems who took a student loan and got "surprised" when the interest rate doubled for some BS reason. The bank was C, naturally. So it is not young and naive who find this a treacherous area to navigate unharmed.
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Health is better than health insurance
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Over the past 60 years, thousands of people have used the Gerson Therapy to recover from so-called “incurable” diseases such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease and arthritis.
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1229
Incept: 2011-04-14
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Quote:I hope they throw you all under the bus That. I am 51 and I expect everyone my age and older to get thrown under the bus. There is no way the next generation can make good on the promises made to my generation and the one older than me. Just look at the size of the SS and Medicare promises not to mention the student loan debt we are loading on the current generation. Once they get out for a few years and see what is happening to them we all need to be on the lookout for busses. Even though I am at the tail-end of the baby boom it is still my fault. Everytime one of the politicians from the statehouse or from DC came around I should have been there to hold that ****er's feet to the fire until he squealed like a pig. Instead I stayed home. We are gonna get what we deserve. Flap
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
"You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns
The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Trades50
Posts: 4218
Incept: 2007-10-30
Land of Tax and Spend
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Quote: I lived in during my college years, one of us has already emigrated to Taiwan, I am well into making preparations for my emigration to Chile, and the third of us is considering heading to Asia as well. More immigration of those with skills out of the US would definitely mess up the tax base. If the standard of living continues to slide we will have a tough time attracting anyone. As the US becomes more like Mexico this country will have a hard time attracting anyone. How many people in the US have a desire to work in Mexico? I do see more with skills and profession thinking of living and working outside the US.
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When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson
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