Are Americans Subjects Or Citizens?
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-03-21 10:42
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
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Are Americans Subjects Or Citizens?
 

There comes a point where the nauseating load of crap that is emitted from the lower and rear orifice of certain media punditry needs to be exposed for what it is.

This is that point.

The Justice Department opened an investigation this week into the killing of Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old high school student who was shot dead on Feb. 26 in Sanford, Florida.

Good.  We should get to the bottom line on this.

Martin was returning to the home of his father’s girlfriend from a 7-Eleven, armed with a package of Skittles and an iced tea, when he was killed. George Zimmerman -- a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain, according to news reports -- had called 911 and proceeded to follow Martin, even after the dispatcher advised him not to. Soon after, Zimmerman told police, he shot Martin.

What we don't know at this point is why Zimmerman shot him.  We know what he claims and we know what the hysteria in the media would like this to be, but we don't know the truth.

If Zimmerman committed felony assault, manslaughter or murder he should be charged, tried and if found guilty punished.  Florida Law includes "10/20/Life" for commission of a felony while using a firearm, so if he is convicted he's going away on an effective permanent basis, and the "20 to Life" term for the shooting is consecutive with any other sentence (e.g. for manslaughter or homicide.) 

But Zimmerman's acts are his and that someone misuses a gallon of gasoline to commit arson is not cause to ban filling your car with the same substance!

The facts are that Florida's crime rate has declined precipitously since 1990:

Florida passed "must-issue" concealed carry in 1987 in response to a boom in crime in Florida during the 1980s.  Critics said that this law would lead to a "shooting gallery" and drive crimes through the roof.

What has happened to both crime and violent crime since?  Violent crime has dropped from 1,220.9 per 100,000 in 1990 to 542.9 in 2010, a drop of more than half. (2011 numbers are not yet out.)

Oh that chart is rather inconvenient, isn't it?

The truth, however, along with the fact that we don't have facts at this point for the incident under consideration doesn't bother Bloomberg -- he, and his media company, are prepared to call for the violation of every citizen's Constitutional rights based upon one event irrespective of the fact that criminal acts, including serious assault and murder, have been in precipitous decline correlated with "must-issue" concealed carry in this state

Whether the media is right or wrong about this particular case and whether or not this shooting was the act of a madman Bloomberg's advocacy is treading damn close to an open act of sedition and should be viewed as such.

Crime is a problem in the U.S. So are guns. According to the local police chief, Zimmerman, 28, had a permit for a concealed weapon, which is easily obtained in Florida. He also had a penchant for calling the police, having made 46 such callsin the past 13 months to report suspicious behavior. Based on news reports, it appears that Zimmerman believed he had much to fear from crime. As things turned out, Martin had much more to fear from Zimmerman’s gun.

Well then we must disarm all police officers immediately.  We must also recall and forbid all secret service and other political protection and especially mayoral protection for Bloomberg.

Why?

Because cops sometimes misuse guns.  In fact, they not only sometimes misuse guns, they also sometimes cover it up, they sometimes dispose of bodies to hide their crimes, including by burning them, and they sometimes "throw down" guns on people they shoot in cold blood.  In fact, this sort of abuse is distressingly common and often requires years to finally be prosecuted, if it ever is!

Brandon also took photos at other key incidents in the days after Katrina that have spawned federal investigations and indictments. He was embedded with the SWAT unit after the hurricane, and he witnessed the aftermath of the Danziger Bridge incident, in which six unarmed civilians were shot by police. He was also on the scene of the shooting of Keenon McCann, in which police shot the apparently unarmed man while he stood under a highway overpass waiting for help in the aftermath of the storm.

Brandon's photos, taken on the day of McCann's shooting, show Lt. Dwayne Scheuermann, who is on trial for beating the men who tried to aid Glover and for burning Glover's body, aiming his gun at McCann. Scheuermann and another officer -- Captain Jeff Winn -- have admitted shooting McCann, although they claim he was armed and posing a threat. No gun was found at the scene.

Note that it took years before the DOJ got involved in this and actually brought charges.  But in this case the DOJ is involved in days, not weeks, months or years.  Why?  Because peasants were killed in Katrina by cops, right?

And by the way this particular set of circumstances is not a presumption, unlike the situation in Florida where Bloomberg is demanding the violation of every American's Constitutional Rights.

Five officers were found guilty in the Danzinger Bridge incident of various charges, including covering up what happened and planting a gun on the dead body of the victim.

But I don't see Bloomberg calling for the removal of guns from the police. 

Why not?

We could talk about Gun Walker too.  You know, that fabulous set of actions by the very people supposed to regulate guns that in fact allowed hundreds of them go across the border to Mexico with full knowledge that they were intended to be used unlawfully and they then were used to murder both Mexican and American citizens.

Who has gone to prison for that? 

Nobody. 

And why not?

I'll tell you why not.  Bloomberg -- and Bloomberg "News", along with the feral government believes you're a peasant and thus you should be shot and murdered any time a cop -- or Bloomberg -- thinks you should be shot.

That is, in Bloomberg's view you don't have rights. 

Any rights

You only have privileges granted by government, which it can withdraw any time it would like, up to and including the privilege to live.  This same "privilege" view is one you've accepted in many areas of your life, including travel (TSA and Driver Licenses), ownership of property (taxing possession of property, aka real estate taxes), free speech ("Occupy", the new laws criminalizing simple speech anywhere the government might be and more) and even the right to life (when some cop decides to shoot you in cold blood, lie about it, plant a gun on you or even burn your body.)

Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness?  No.  You've been declared a peasant.  A slave to the crown.  A crown worn by Bloomberg.  A crown worn by Obama.  And they not only assert the right to enforce their retraction of your privilege to live, to travel, to take a crap or to eat with money, they assert the right to enforce that withdrawal of privilege with force, including deadly force, any time they'd like. 

To be blunt they assert the right to kill you at any point in time for any reason whatsoever and then lie to both your next of kin and the public about what happened and why.

These are the positions of despots.  Of tyrants.  Positions that more than 200 years ago the founders put their foot down against and decided to shoot first, declaring that there was going to be no more of that crap on this land and that the tyrants of the time would either fold, die, or they would die trying to eject them.

They won and we have a nation called America as a consequence. 

But "America" today looks much more like Colonial America pre-Revolution in terms of your rights (or rather, the lack thereof) than post-Revolution 1787 when The Constitution formally ensconced protection of the rights declared by the founders in 1776.

The positions of Bloomberg and others like him are the positions of those who act to subvert the Constitution, and they do so while holding and using firearms, the very definition of force, for the explicit purpose of depriving your Constitutionally-guaranteed rights under color of law or authority.

While freedom of speech is recognized by The Constitution 18 USC 242 and 42 USC 1983 say any act to violate your Constitutionally-secured rights are both civilly-actionable and serious criminal felonies.  But like so many other "laws" that forbid force and fraud that have been wantonly violated over the last decade we seem to be unable to find anyone who will do a damn thing about it when the government, or powerful people protected by government, are the ones breaking the law.

When are we, as Americans, going to grow a sack and tell these tyrants that they either cut this crap out -- right now -- or we will demand and, if necessary, enforce both the law and The Constitution?

This question ultimately devolves into one: Are you a peasant with only privileges granted by people like ****-for-brains Bloomberg or are you a citizen with Constitutionally-guaranteed rights that nobody, whether it be Mayor Bloomberg, President Obama or anyone else may violate?

Simply put: Are you a subject ala 1775 or are you a citizen ala 1787?

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Jwm_in_sb
Posts: 1096
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California Desert
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Let's see, NDAA, Panettas assertion to congress about getting authority for.war from the UN , and Obamas EO this past Friday....this is not looking like a republic anymore is it?
Stonedog
Posts: 2084
Incept: 2008-05-29
Green A True American Patriot!
New Jersey
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I can only say that know my own opinions. I don't own any guns. I don't like them. Having said that, I strongly support the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution that prohibits the government from restricting gun ownership as I believe that is the first step to tyranny. To buy guns or not to buy guns is a right that is guaranteed by the Constitution. In other words, just because I don't like guns, does not mean I have any right to infringe on the right of any Citizen to purchase them.

In answer to your question - I like to believe that I am a citizen and not subject (though maybe I flatter myself). That I act to try to keep the politicans in line in terms of their voting for TARP, the NDAA, ect. through phone calls and e-mails make me one as I take my civic responsibilities seriously. I also try to educate others as to what is going on out there (Not necessarily successfully). Finally, in light of the every increasing tyranny in this country at the hands of the Republican/Democratic Party, I have recently changed my Party affiliation in protest of their actions and will be attending the NJ State Libertarian Party Convention on Saturday.

Having said all of this, I think most of the People in this country would rather be subjects than citizens. Most people regurgitate the proganda of the MSM without any critical thinking. Most people would rather watch Dancing with the Stars than try to find out what is really happening in this country. Most people want what's "theirs" regardless of the damage the ever increasing budget deficit. Finally, most people that I've spoken to (including members of my own family) don't want to know the truth of what's going on out there and get annoyed when you try to break them out of their cozy little world. And one day these MOST of the People will most likely wake up under the yoke and wonder what happened...

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"I would characterize my professional disdain as more of a professional contempt for their [Central Banker, Banker and politician] economic and financial policies, priorities, presumptions and prescriptions." - Lauren Lyster on Capital Account for Friday June 16, 2012

"All the stimulus, the bailouts, the quantit
Richardebel
Posts: 97
Incept: 2010-11-15

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It's a shame, but we do have crazy people out there with guns, with or without permits. For all we know, this guy could have been a "setup" in the governments zeal to disarm it's citizens. "Fast and Furious" anyone?
Vitchilo
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Yeah. Zimmerman should be investigated more... as they are doing...

And this shouldn't be an excuse to take everyone's rights away.

Conceal carry should need a permit, but open carry should be legal everywhere with no permit needed.

Anti-second amendment laws are unconstitutional any way you cut it and the supreme court should tell Bloomberg and people like him to repeal all those anti-gun laws in their cities within 24 hres or be sent to jail along with every lawmaker in the state/city legislature if they don't comply.

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We hang the petty thieves and promote the great ones to office.

Mpilar
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Quote:
Conceal carry should need a permit,

WHY?! Just a sentence later, you state that anti_second amendment laws are unconstitutional...

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- Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
- These are the times that try men's souls. - T. Paine
Genesis
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There should be no permit required to carry period -- concealed or otherwise. You don't need a damned permit to exercise a RIGHT. If you must obtain a permit it's a PRIVILEGE.

The best deterrent for criminals is not knowing whether their intended victim and those in the area have a firearm. Violent thugs understand only one sort of language, just as do tyrants. Both are a manifestation of animal behavior and if you've ever observed animals in the wild you will note that they pay close attention to exactly one thing when it comes to predation -- the possibility that they will lose in the encounter.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?

Mannfm11
Posts: 3608
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The Feds and the NY media have no business in this case. They should keep their noses in their own sewers.

As far as the Constitution goes? The people wouldn't have passed this document if the Federal government hadn't put the right to bear arms in it. This was a commercial criminal class that put it together in the first place and immediately went to violating it the day they started the Federal Government. The USA would look a lot different if the document had been followed. This group end ran the Articles of Confederation to give themselves the best lands under the table and set up themselves as the bankers of the country.

I have thought for years if the rest of the USA could succeed from NYC and DC, happy days would be here again. That is the 2 culprits in this article. Bloomberg is a NAZI. When he runs for President and wins, it will be time to leave.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Vitchilo
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Mpilar : well it worked that way back in the day...only thieves and crooks were hiding their guns because they were up to no good... or maybe I'm mistaken.

Anyway, the second amendment shouldn't be a privilege, it should be a right... so I guess you are right... no permit at all.

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We hang the petty thieves and promote the great ones to office.

Nelstomlinson
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Juneau Alaska
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Subjects or citizens? It's pretty obvious how our government answered that. I think ``our'' government has moved way past that question.
Eli
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This case like so many these days is just being used as propaganda by those who want to remove our Rights.

It is an unfortunate situation but but it has mass appeal to the anti-Rights groups. They cry racialism because the victim in the shooting was black, which is the ultimate victims group. If you are black in this country it does not matter if you are a Judge or a street thug, you are born a victim.

It is funny that they are playing up the race card in this case, but it others it is just ignored.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-....

But setting a white boy on fire does not have the same appeal.


Lets face it guns are evil and the only people that should have them is our Government that protects us and provides us all with our freedom and rights that they allow us to have, just as long as we do what they say.

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If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Frat
Posts: 1939
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Vast majority of the country? They're not only subjects, but are HAPPY to be so.

Give them their bread and circuses, and that's all it takes.

Steal money via taxes from the producers to keep the non-producers fed, and TPTB have happy subjects for life.

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We're ****ed. Where's Henry Bowman when you need him?
Eli
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And here is nice little video from Breitbart where a reports 1st amendment rights were "terminated".

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/....

We don't have rights, we have privileges. Since more than half of the subjects of the United States receives compensation directly from them government they are more than happy to give up whatever, just as long as they still get the free government cheese.

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If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Drench
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Mdm
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South Florida
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Quote:
The best deterrent for criminals is not knowing whether their intended victim and those in the area have a firearm.


I disagree. I believe the best deterrent is when a criminal KNOWS that their intended victim and those in the area have a firearm. I'd like to see open carry around here, but somehow I don't think it will ever happen.
Rickysa
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Southern Pines, NC
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"The Road We Are Traveling", Stuart Chase, 1942.


If you buy into his theory, we are already there (subjects)
Vitaeus
Posts: 54
Incept: 2010-10-05

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"I disagree. I believe the best deterrent is when a criminal KNOWS that their intended victim and those in the area have a firearm. I'd like to see open carry around here, but somehow I don't think it will ever happen."

I agree, Open Carry should be lawful in any state that echoes the 2nd amendment to the Constitution. Both my wife and I open carry our firearms as much as we can around Federal Infringements (Post Office, schools, etc.)
In regards to Citizen versus serf(consumer), we are currently working to reverse many years of serfdom, but I do think the government has lost the idea of a "citizen" in favor of the serf.
Peterm99
Posts: 5176
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SoCal
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Mdm -

I don't believe you're looking at it the right way.

It is highly unlikely that everyone will carry a firearm, even if there are no laws to the contrary. If hidden carry is disallowed and there is only open carry, then a potential perp knows exactly who is and who isn't able to offer armed resistance. That will make his choice of victim much simpler.

I believe it is much more of a deterrent if he doesn't know who is and isn't armed, as he will know that there will be a reasonable likelihood that his attempts will be met by armed resistance no matter who he chooses as a victim.

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". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwell’s imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
Eli
Posts: 7247
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Rick thanks a lot I had to look up what you were talking about and found this,
it really sums it up.

http://www.nolanchart.com/article4425-a-....


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If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.
George Orwell

Jethrodull
Posts: 81
Incept: 2008-02-25

North Texas
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"He also had a penchant for calling the police, having made 46 such callsin the past 13 months to report suspicious behavior"....

that wouldn't be explained by the fact that he was a member of the Community Watch Patrol, would it? I thought those Community Watch Patrols were encouraged by the local LEA?

Spin it some more...
J
Mpilar
Posts: 5816
Incept: 2009-01-05
Gold
Nashville, TN
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That's all I see involved in this case...spin, spin, and more spin. The "white" thing is pretty questionable as well as he's reportedly half white/half hispanic (wouldn't that make him hispanic and not white if we go by our Prez's definition?) according to family with black family members as well...racist? Based on the 911 call maybe...but that's about it...

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- Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken
- These are the times that try men's souls. - T. Paine
Pcaldallas
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Silver
Unicorn Ranch
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A citizen wouldn't need to ask for permission/licenses/permits for nearly every day to day activity in this country. I've always wondered, how can a person trespass on "government property" if the government is the citizenship? Subjects, serfs, peasants, whatever. This country has overlords, plain and simple.

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"The appearance of law must be upheld, especially when it's being broken." - Boss Tweed, Gangs of New York
Bozonian
Posts: 19956
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Green
Saratoga Springs, New York
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Um, all this stuff is subject to interpretation, unless you want people to be able to carry bazookas, hand grenades, M2s, bunker busters, chain guns and nuclear weapons. After all, those ARE arms and the right to bear them shall not be infringed.

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The most expensive thing you can have is a closed mind. -- Geoffrey Filburt

Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
Aztrader
Posts: 6655
Incept: 2007-09-10
Green
Scottsdale, AZ
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I have this argument with people at the gun shows all the time. Under most state laws, you can carry your gun, but are very limited in it's use. Most cities even have laws that forbid the firing of a gun in city limits. So when you go to defend yourself, you automatically violate this law.

Proving the using of lethal force can be very difficult and expensive. If you are arrested and charged, a good defense attorney will want $10k as a retainer and if found innocent, don't give refunds.

I leave my guns at home and always go the less-lethal route. If you need to defend yourself in 99% of the cases, a gun is just too much.

If you want an alternative, the check out the jpx pepper gun. Don't get yourself into a financial bind because your only mode of self defense was your gun. Think about the potential liability and how using it will effect you in the future.
In this case, again, the govt has no right interferring. They are looking for any example to take away guns. They tried to set up Arizona gun shows and ended up getting boarder patrol guards killed with their stupidity. They know what is coming and are doing everything in their power to stop it.
Joejohns
Posts: 694
Incept: 2010-09-09
Green

Banned
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The whole thread has ran so far off the rails that it's tragic funny.

Self defense is not something you claim to a cop on the street while standing over the dead body.

If true , when the dispatcher/cop told the guy to stand down and he didn't then that's enough right there , especially given the fact the guy was a habitual victim type , at least that seems to be the facts until we hear how many of the 46 calls ended up in an arrest,etc.

Sounds like a guy that believes most of the b.s. from the usual MSM hacks about deadly criminals prowling the hood night and day.

Also, if as some of the call logs seem to indicate the dead boy was running AWAY from the guy , then I am not sure how if one chases the boy down you can then turn around and claim self defense and the cops on the scene just shrug their shoulders and let it slide.



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