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| On Iran And Nukes in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Cheyenne
Posts: 82
Incept: 2009-01-22
Santa Cruz, Ca
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Nice entry, thanks. Keep plugging this stuff until people open their eyes...
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"Fear Disturbs your concentration" -- Sabine Schmitz
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Richardebel
Posts: 96
Incept: 2010-11-15
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Pakistan already has nukes, and we're not threatening to destroy their facilities. Yet we find it necessary to impose sanctions on Iran and threaten to destroy their facilities. At this point, Iran has not been proven to be a viable nuclear threat, other than their capability of eventually becoming one. The real threat at this time is a nuclear exchange between the US and her allies with Russia, Pakistan, and others. That is more scary to me.
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Huntly
Posts: 1
Incept: 2011-10-26
Savannah
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Just wondering what the point is? I would hope that most intelligent people assume that Iran is pursuing something that can be weaponized, but so what. As much as people in punditland like to trumpet it, I do not believe that they are suicidal to the point of setting off a bomb or giving it to a terrorist org. Why do they not have a right to defend themselves against what they perceive as threats?
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Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
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That's a separate question.
The argument often made is that they want the capability for purely-peaceful purposes.
Bull****. Nobody has built a reactor using the uranium fuel cycle since the 1960s for purely peaceful purposes.
Nobody.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Crzymorse
Posts: 1195
Incept: 2010-06-25
Maryland
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Karl, Here's one to add to the Beaver Cleaver I'm sorry I got caught commiting fraudlent acts with no repercussions except a fine. Same Enron traders different company I suppose. And I though deregulation, fostered increased competition that decreases prices (bull****) http://news.yahoo.com/ferc-warns-power-n....
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Fraudster
Posts: 4176
Incept: 2011-05-10
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Huntly your point, and do we really want to start another very expensive (disasterous) military venture when we are already in the midst of a (what will eventually be catastrophic) debt crisis? Is Iran a threat? Maybe. Do I think that the military option is in any way practical at this point in time? In my opinion, no.
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Marvinmartian
Posts: 754
Incept: 2011-03-16
Pasadena, CA
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According to official US intelligence source, Iran has not yet decided to make nuclear weapons.
However, by having the enrichment technology, they make pit (the bomb core) production very easy.
Nuclear power reactors have a tremendous dis-advantage to create Pu for bomb sources: their high flux generates isotops of Pu that have a high spontaneous fission rate. This prevents optimum implosion in a fission weapon; the spontaneous fissions start the chain reaction much sooner than the designed-in neutron source.
Plutonium production reactors have a much lower neutron flux, and generate much less Pu240 and higher isotopes of plutonium than civilian power reactors.
So, Iran may be claiming their enrichment is for power production, but as a byproduct their enrichment process gets them strategic nuclear material that they would not otherwise get by reprocessing spent power reactor fuel.
In short, Karl, I agree with your thesis on Iran. I've just embellished it with some plausible technical reasons why it is so.
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Dakine2004
Posts: 9232
Incept: 2007-10-23
MD.MI.NC.SD.
Online
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I'm nuts...
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Bagbalm
Posts: 4263
Incept: 2009-03-19
Just North of Detroit
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I suppose that the reason people fear Iran is their mouths. If they were not constantly babbling threats like a deranged person perhaps others would be less afraid of them having such weapons. Name any other country with nukes that constantly vows to rain death on their neighbors...One other , North Korea. I realize that in both cases there is a cultural bias toward talking big. Threatening murder pro forma may come back and bite you on the butt. I have no sympathy. Say little, and mean what you say fool.
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Mckinnemon
Posts: 56
Incept: 2007-12-06
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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I'm dumber than a box of rocks.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Harrisonact
Posts: 1756
Incept: 2010-10-04
canada
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Karl, Quote:Bull****. Nobody has built a reactor using the uranium fuel cycle since the 1960s for purely peaceful purposes. We have. What others have done with our tech is not our doing. But we stand alone using uranium for peaceful/medical purposes.
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bilge My playbook speaks español. Deal with it. Im too lazy to fix it.
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Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Harrison: bull****.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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N9lhm
Posts: 92
Incept: 2010-01-28
South Bend, IN
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?????? How have we used our power generating reactors for non-peaceful purposes?
I'm admittedly rusty on this, but I thought breeder reactors were the only ones that made plutonium as part of the reaction process, and that was why the USSR was the only ones using them. But you all will tell me if I'm wrong :)
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Rjsasko
Posts: 67
Incept: 2009-03-23
aurora, IL
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Years ago if we had known about the Khan network and Pakistan's nuclear bomb program you're damned right we would have gone in there and either seized it or bombed it into rubble. Only fools think Pakistan's weapons are even remotely secure at this point. As it was Cheney outright threatened Musharef with war and we went in there and put trigger locks and other safety measures on their weapons.
As for the Iranian government ask yourself a few questions before pronouncing yourself an expert on what they would do and that they only want them for security. They are floating on a pool of oil and just burning off a ****load of natural gas but they import their gasoline because they need refineries. Would you make the world happy, play nice, and get refineries for your national security (economic and military)? Or would you spend billions of dollars you do not have investing in a nuke program while you have all of that oil while the rest of the world places sanctions on you for that nuke program and your economy tanks and your inflation rate is in the double digits? They want weapons. And they have said repeatedly that they will use them as soon as they get them against the Big and Little Satan. Guess who those two are?
Besides, their True Believers think that buy launching Armeggedon they are hastening the return of the Hidden Imam (who is living in a well in Qom) who will transport them all to Paradise where they will all get 72 virgins to deflower. No doubt six year old ones just like their Prophet Mohammed's favorite wife Aisha. I'm sure they will bring their dolls on their Honeymoon just like she did. Do not for one minute assume that the Iranian government is rational.
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Marvinmartian
Posts: 754
Incept: 2011-03-16
Pasadena, CA
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N9lhn wrote..I'm admittedly rusty on this, but I thought breeder reactors were the only ones that made plutonium as part of the reaction process ... Wikipedia wrote..Neutrons from the fission of uranium-235 are captured by uranium-238 nuclei to form uranium-239; a beta decay converts a neutron into a proton to form Np-239 (half-life 2.36 days) and another beta decay forms plutonium-239. This reaction happens inside all reactors fueled with uranium. Breeder reactors are designed to produce more fissionable material from U238 than they consume. Whats interesting is that there is a company, "terrapower" that wants to exploit this in a big way for power production to consume all the uranium in its fuel source. Source: http://www.intellectualventures.com/OurI....
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Bjonsson
Posts: 350
Incept: 2010-03-10
California
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Quote:They want weapons. And they have said repeatedly that they will use them as soon as they get them against the Big and Little Satan. Myth. http://americanforeignpolicy.org/iran-ke....http://militantlibertarian.org/2012/02/1....I don't deny that Iran seems to be making defacto steps towards a nuclear weapon infrastructure. I agree with KD, it seems pretty clear to me that they are. How far along this process they are, or how far along they intend to go... I don't know. But they have made the "first steps" in this direction. However, this claim that once they get a nuke, they intend to immediately unleash it against Israel or the US is myth. Joint Chiefs Chairman Dempsey "Iran is a rational actor" http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0....Former Mossad chief Meir Dagan - Iran is a "rational" actor, preemptive attack on Iran would be "stupid" http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/03/12/fo....
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Pheenix11
Posts: 48
Incept: 2010-08-16
Port Richey, FL
Banned
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I don't doubt for a second that Iran wants nuclear weapons or has them already.
My question is this, what moral high ground does the United States have to dictate who can and can't have nuclear weapons?
That's like the government saying police and military can have guns but average citizens cannot.
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Skip_danger
Posts: 12
Incept: 2011-06-23
Lima, Ohio
Banned
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>Folks, if you don't think Iran has made nuclear weapons, and is fully-capable of detonating at least a crude one at this point, you're nuts.<
I certainly wouldn't blame them if they had nukes. Look how fast Iraq got wiped out. The Iranians would want to put up a little better fight.,
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Lipdorn
Posts: 11
Incept: 2011-12-28
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I agree that the uranium cycle is more prevalent due to it being ideally suited to manufacturing the fissile material for nuclear bombs. However, due to this it is also the only design that was sold on the market. Smaller countries do not have the resources to fund thorium research and development, so they buy uranium cycle power plants.
Since the west started the Iranian Bushr reactor, and the Soviets/Russia finished it, and because it is uranium cycle, it makes sense for Iran to use the uranium cycle. I mean, the chinese could cheaply provide them with the latest schematics for western 4th generation plants, and they already have one.
Given the hostilities against it, right or wrong, it also makes sense that they would want to secure their own fuel supplies.
It just happens to be very convenient that the power plant and the enrichment facilities can be used to generate weapons grade material. As Karl has stated this is why the uranium cycle is so prevalent. Blame the US, USSR, France, UK and China for this. Had they developed thorium cycle LFTR plants, we could, without a shadow of a doubt, have said that in choosing uranium cycle plants, Iran wants to have a nuclear bomb.
Now they can justify their actions somewhat economically and by pointing out the hypocrisies of the nuclear nations.
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Iamedwardteach
Posts: 798
Incept: 2011-09-18
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"FACT: WHEN THE DRAFT OF YOUR VESSEL EXCEEDS THE DEPTH OF THE WATER, YOU ARE MOST ASSUREDLY... AGROUND!"
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Gantww
Posts: 549
Incept: 2011-04-22
Nashville, TN
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I wish I could find that graphic showing the locations of American military bases in the gulf, particularly those that surround Iran. Trying to look at it from their side, I can totally see why they would be afraid we're going to try to invade them. They are pretty much encircled right now.
Also look at how we treat petty tyrants with nukes versus those without them. We put up with Kim Jong Il for years because he had nukes. We put up with Pakistan hiding bin Laden for years, they had nukes. Whereas some two bit bastard like Saddam just got rolled. And they can't even trust us, you know good and well that we encouraged the action that recently happened in Libya. We're happy to throw our friends under the bus.
I can see how from their perspective that they are making the only choice left to them. I'm no lover of Islam, but crap, we've gotta stop cornering other nations and then getting mad because they react as if they were cornered.
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2666
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
Online
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Quote:Folks, if you don't think Iran has made nuclear weapons, and is fully-capable of detonating at least a crude one at this point, you're nuts.
Additionally, if you think their intent is not to have dual-use nuclear technology you're dumber than a box of rocks. And unfortunately, most of America is dumber than a box of rocks when it comes to this subject, and you've been intentionally kept dumb. Both US and Israel intelligence state that Iran does not have nukes and do not intend to build one. I suppose I could go out and buy a bunch of Coleman lantern mantles and wrap them around a firecracker and state I have a nuke weapon. I would be interested how you have better information than US and Israel intelligence.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
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Genesis
Posts: 130798
Incept: 2007-06-26
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The very fact that they are using a uranium fuel cycle is proof of intent on dual use.
Period.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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