| User Info
| Here It Comes.... (Abortion / Personhood) in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Bsfootprint
Posts: 963
Incept: 2011-02-27
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The whole 'viability' thing always cracked me up. I've met numerous non-viable people in daily life. Does that mean I can abort them? /sarc
Seriously, the whole viability argument seemed a bit of a slippery slope, eventually subject to political whim.
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When I hear central bankers are blowing bubbles, I like to picture a large, happy and well-endowed male chimp named 'Bubbles'...
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Otiswild
Posts: 5617
Incept: 2009-03-09
Inside you, the force is!
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It's a miscarriage of justice!
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Genesis
Posts: 130691
Incept: 2007-06-26
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(groan)
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Gates
Posts: 6262
Incept: 2008-01-29
Scottsdale
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LOL
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Lowbeyond
Posts: 16875
Incept: 2008-02-11
CO aka West NJ/East CA
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article wrote..Parker wrote that the Supreme Court "erroneously" concluded in Roe that the unborn have no rights as "persons," but since 1973, mounds of cases have been decided in tort and criminal law in favor of babies with prenatal injuries "regardless whether the injury occurred either before or after the point of viability."
Citing the National Conference of State Legislatures, Parker wrote that 38 states have enacted fetal-homicide statutes, of which 28 protect life from conception, and noted a ruling from last year by his own court that concluded that Alabama's wrongful death law applies to an unborn child at any stage of gestation. He added that at least nine other states permit recovery for the wrongful death of previable unborn children.
"This court recognized the arbitrariness of 'draw(ing) a line that allows recovery on behalf of a fetus injured before viability that dies after achieving viability but that prevents recovery on behalf of a fetus injured that, as a result of those injuries, does not survive to viability,'" Parker wrote. Hey look its is "society" wanting to have it both ways. Hey its a baby if I want it, and a fetus to be aborted if I don't. Hey my fetus has a prenatal injury. I have a valid tort. Give me money. Hey we don't like this guy - he's an ******* - and he crashed his car into a pregnant woman who subsequently lost her fetus. Charge him with homicide !  genesis wrote..The same is true for IVF. And eventually, some aggrieved husband who just filed for divorce is also going to file a similar wrongful death suit predicated on some sort of birth control that was in use by the couple, arguing that he terminated his consent and "she didn't stop." Why that's crazy talk! No one would ever do that ! Just like women would never impregnate themselves with saved frozen sperm and then file for child support or lie about the paternity of child X in order to go after the wealthier man
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Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?!
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Friar_tuck
Posts: 1118
Incept: 2008-01-09
N. Cal
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Hopefully this will lead to more widespread acceptance of the retro-active Nth trimester abortions. Fire up the blenders.
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Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1562
Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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Maybe we should let democracy work it out.
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Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1562
Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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I meant to say representative democracy.
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Seanmiller
Posts: 80
Incept: 2009-10-29
North Denver
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Sorry Mortgageguymn, but Im getting tired of "Democracy" being used to initiate force against me because others who happen to outnumber me find it to their benefit or liking.
In such cases, Democracy is nothing more than 3 wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner.
I'll take my Representative Republic back, thanks.
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Richard112360
Posts: 610
Incept: 2008-02-06
Hooterville
Banned
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Pro-life and Pro-War! A Contradiction in Terms?
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Janedeaux
Posts: 287
Incept: 2009-09-16
Mississippi
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this personhood itiative was voted down here in Mississippi just last Nov. and those idiots are already back trying to ramp up votes
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A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.-anon
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Riceday
Posts: 502
Incept: 2009-10-30
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If our governments weren't awash in free money, they wouldn't have the resources to pursue frivolous prosecutions, none of this would be an issue {As I file my taxes}.
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Imustbenutz
Posts: 283
Incept: 2010-11-04
Absurdistan, USSA
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What's next? A bit of nannystate pre-crime foreshadowing from Monty Python:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.
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Twofaced
Posts: 805
Incept: 2007-07-18
Virginia
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My opinion...
When does the baby or fetus, which ever way you want to look at it, first feel pain?
If it (the baby fetus) feels pain then abortions shouldnt be performed after that fact.
I really do not care if abortions are done or not, however I would like to see some protections for the father and he should have to agree with a procedure before it is performed. I personally do not want a woman to abort my child (not gonna have anymore), but I have no rights or say in the matter. I would like to at least have that option. At the same time it isnt my place to tell someone else what to do (other than the mother of my child). Might sound hypocritical but it is a touchy area. Anyone in my family having an abortion and found out by the rest of the family would instantly disowned and not welcome around any other family member.
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Steve LIESman "Saving is UNAMERICAN"
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Asimov
Posts: 103906
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Twofaced: You can't define it that way. A single nerve cell will "feel" pain.
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
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Smacktle
Posts: 1359
Incept: 2009-01-20
Texas
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The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier.
- George Bernard Shaw
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Wis/min
Posts: 5362
Incept: 2009-08-14
On the border
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Asi, a functioning brain is needed to perceive pain-
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Weezie
Posts: 6068
Incept: 2008-05-19
Caution: Congress at Work
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Does this mean we can abort politicians, Wis?
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The election is not a way to have a voice in government, but rather an impotent declaration if we prefer ketchup or mustard on our **** sandwich.
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Asimov
Posts: 103906
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
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Wis: Now you have to define what functioning is and perception. Is a plant's natural reaction to injury "perceiving" pain? Is a baby's brain really "functioning" when it's ecg is quite different from an adults even at several months of age? Most definitions are a quagmire, even as a starting point.
The only thing that has ever made sense to me is whether or not it can live outside the mother. If it can't, it cannot be life by definition because it cannot live. If it can, it obviously is life.
That leaves a lot of room for argument over what's technically achievable, but stands for every level of technology, from neolithic to growing babies in jars.
It doesn't really solve the argument, but it eliminates some of the (in my opinion) stupidity from it. If it cannot live, it is not life.
(I've said my peace, not interested in an argument.)
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
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Nemotf
Posts: 26
Incept: 2008-10-10
West Virginia
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Agreed Asimov.
I've ponder this very thing long and hard before many medical advancements. What is needed is a sliding scale on human life, especially since the human genome has been sequenced.
If we define life as beginning at conception, then just add/remove a few sequences and GMO people....cue BLADERUNNER opening theme.
Allow medical technology to determine what's viable, you automatically close the door on that nonsense and these endless stupid laws that will lead in the same direction as the other option will cause.
An even ground both should be happy with.
I've said my piece, and no longer interested in this argument as well.
Reason: opps!
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Abn0rmal
Posts: 9261
Incept: 2009-01-10
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Life begins at conception however life is not the same as personhood. Each and every cell in your body is individually alive but we don't treat each one of them as an entity with an individual right to life.
The question that we need to answer is, "when does a human life become a person?" not, "when does life begin?"
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Twofaced
Posts: 805
Incept: 2007-07-18
Virginia
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Well there are arguments for it can not live outside the mother....
Can a kidney failure patient live without the dialysis? If your argument hold true then we should let these people expire? And before anyone answers, I wish you to search your soul because I thought it was easy to say unplug someone until it happen to me. It is kinda like that argument you can take a **** whereever but dont take a **** in my backyard.
Well since abortions are normally done prior to 12th week (that I know of) with some exceptions, and the youngest fetus being born is 21 weeks and most studies saying fetus cant feel pain until 21 to 24 weeks, most is moot point to me.
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Steve LIESman "Saving is UNAMERICAN"
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Fisticuffs
Posts: 1085
Incept: 2007-07-28
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My opinion is that personhood begins when the brain has formed and is electrically active which is around six weeks. Notocord is not sufficient. Formed but not electrically active is not sufficient. The brain is the part of the human body that makes a living human a person; the other vital organs' ultimate purpose is to keep the brain alive.
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B(ern)ank(e)
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Ozonehole
Posts: 104
Incept: 2009-04-04
Taiwan
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I don't think most people recognize just how common miscarriage is. This occurs in nature, and if we're going to hold doctors legally liable for non-induced miscarriage, I don't see how anyone could practice medicine on a pregnant woman. For definition purposes, an "early miscarriage" is one that happens in the first trimester... Quote:How common is miscarriage?
It depends when it happens. Sadly, early miscarriages are very common. Often, a woman miscarries before she even realises she's pregnant. Perhaps as many as three-quarters of all fertilised eggs are lost in the very earliest days of pregnancy. After a positive pregnancy test, there's about a one in five chance of having an early miscarriage. This is when most miscarriages happen.
Late miscarriage is much less common. It happens in about one in 100 pregnancies
http://www.babycentre.co.uk/pregnancy/gr....
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