TMD: That's not jubilee. That's default.

Quote:

Depressions are horrible wasteful means of purging the system.

No they aren't. Depresssions are the result of delayed recession through embezzlement. Otherwise known as PROCRASTURBATION.

Depressions are wasteful. Lots of labor goes unused that could be used to make the world a better place and lots of people suffer.

They're also karma-like punishment for trying to ignore business cycles and changing demands of an ever-changing society.

I'm accepting of both descriptions.

Depressions are simply the accumulated damage that was delayed and attempted to be denied.

It never works because mathematically it can't.

Gen wrote..

Depressions are simply the accumulated damage that was delayed and attempted to be denied.

It never works because mathematically it can't.

Yep, I see em kinda like stored energy in a spring... The tighter you wind it, the more work you put into it over time to keep it wound, the nastier the unwind!

Nature dictates to us that the energy will seek and find a way out of the system. It wants to find it's equilibrium.

Asi - can't argue with you. Just saying Jubilee sounds like so much more fun.

The thing about jubilee is that it clears out debt in an orderly fashion. That's why I think it would be an excellent thing to start again.

But it seems everybody's concept of it is "hey, lets do it, I won't have to pay my debts and all my **** will be for free" - but that's simply not the case.

We *NEED* a way to clear out debt every so often and I can't think of a better way to do so. But it has to be a date fixed in the future that everybody is aware of, otherwise it's pointless.

In the short-run when you increase "G" in "C + I + G + (x - i)" you don't impact "I" as long as you have low short-term interest rates. However in the long run you are contracting "I" by far more than what you're getting by increasing "G". Thus your net formula result (i.e. GDP) is hurt in the long run. History has proven the same IMO with the gold standard vs. fiat standard for monetary policy. Now before I get labeled a "gold bug" or fanatic/wrong I'd like to give the caveat that I'm just expressing my opinion and I accept that I could be wrong and missing some info in my theses. In the short-run you tend to get deeper downturns with gold than you do with fiat money and the over-leveraged and ill-prepared tend to really get wiped out more easily during such eras. However in the long-run you get more stability with a gold standard than you do with a fiat standard as real value becomes more defineable and less subject to artificial manipulations by humans. Thus the quick fixers tend to like government spending, deficit spending, and fiat money while those with long range thinking skills and planning thoughts tend to prefer the gold standard and limited government as this promotes the stability necessary to encourage the "I" and "x" components to grow, the "G" component to stay under control", the "i" component to be minimalized, and the freedom for the "C" component to grow as the capital/prosperity base grows over time. What we have around the world are a bunch of voters who remind me more of Cookie Monster with a plate of cookies than deliberative thinkers. As a result we have machiavellian politicians (and businesspeople) universally who feed off of this "I want my cookies right now" mentality in order to get power for themselves at the expense of the masses.

The Gold standard changes nothing as the problem isn't there and can't be fixed there. The problem is unbacked credit creation - you either stop that or you have the same problem.

The FORM of monetary unit (fiat .vs. commodity-backed) does not matter. At all.

So if we back our currency with Gold where are we gonna get the Gold? The true problem is that we as a nation do not produce enough to support our standard of living. Going to a Gold standard does nothing to change that does it? Until we get back to creating wealth by producing something other than credit default swaps and derivative contracts we're fooked.

Bill Still quote: "its not what backs the money, its who controls the quantity" The asset backed money is a start but only to set a measure; it does not matter if money creation is uncontrolled (ie, through debt issuance, or debasement) "Fiat Money Inflation in France" is a good read to see how asset backing of a currency can fail.

US notes and collonial script were not debt based fiat.

I say we go to the derivative backed currency. Each FRN must be backed by a derivative contract. I don't know how that would work but it's the only thing we have In abundance to pledge.

100 years later and people still don't get it. It's a private corporation, people, and there are owners and shareholders. The Fed itself has said so ...

"From now on, depressions will be scientifically created." — Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

"The financial system has been turned over to the Federal Reserve Board. That Board as ministers the finance system by authority of a purely profiteering group. The system is Private, conducted for the sole purpose of obtaining the greatest possible profits from the use of other people's money" -- Charles A. Lindbergh Sr., 1923

"The Federal Reserve bank buys government bonds without one penny..." — Congressman Wright Patman, Congressional Record, Sept 30, 1941

"The Federal Reserve banks are one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever seen. There is not a man within the sound of my voice who does not know that this nation is run by the International bankers — Congressman Louis T. McFadden (Rep. Pa)

"Some people think the Federal Reserve Banks are the United States government's institutions. They are not government institutions. They are private credit monopolies which prey upon the people of the United States for the benefit of themselves and their foreign swindlers" — Congressional Record 12595-12603 — Louis T. McFadden, Chairman of the Committee on Banking and Currency (12 years) June 10, 1932

"These 12 corporations together cover the whole country and monopolize and use for private gain every dollar of the public currency..." — Mr. Crozier of Cincinnati, before Senate Banking and Currency Committee - 1913


"When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in out account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money." — Putting it simply, Boston Federal Reserve Bank

"Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities, intrinsically, a 'dollar' bill is just a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries." — Modern Money Mechanics Workbook, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, 1975

"The regional Federal Reserve banks are not government agencies. ...but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." — Lewis vs. United States, 680 F. 2d 1239, 9th Circuit 1982

"The Federal Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities..." — Lewis vs. United States 9th Circuit 1992

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce." — James A. Garfield, President of the United States

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Add this one, too.

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"Most Americans have no real understanding of the operation of the international money lenders. The accounts of the Federal Reserve System have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and manipulates the credit of the United States" — Senator Barry Goldwater (Rep. AR)

Here, have some more.

Thomas Jefferson
"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Already they have raised up a monied aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The
issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to
whom it properly belongs." — Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President.

Andrew Jackson
"If Congress has the right [it doesn't] to issue paper money [currency], it was given to them to be used by...[the government] and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations" — President Andrew Jackson, Vetoed Bank Bill of 1836

James Madison
"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and it's issuance." — James Madison

From the Fed ...

Now, go look at the mother Fed.

http://www.bis.org/index.htm

The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) is an intergovernmental organization of central banks which "fosters international monetary and financial cooperation and serves as a bank for central banks."[2] It is not accountable to any national government. The BIS carries out its work through subcommittees, the secretariats it hosts, and through its annual General Meeting of all members. It also provides banking services, but only to central banks, or to international organizations like itself. Based in Basel, Switzerland, the BIS was established by the Hague agreements of 1930. The name of the BIS in German: Bank für Internationalen Zahlungsausgleich (BIZ), in French: Banque des Règlements Internationaux (BRI), in Italian: Banca dei Regolamenti Internazionali (BRI). It has representative offices in Hong Kong and Mexico City.

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Board of directors

Christian Noyer, Paris (Chairman of the Board of Directors)
Hans Tietmeyer, Frankfurt am Main (Vice-Chairman)
Ben Bernanke, Washington, DC;
Mark Carney, Ottawa;
Mario Draghi, Rome;
William Dudley, New York;
Stefan Ingves, Stockholm;
Mervyn King, London;
Jean-Pierre Landau, Paris;
Guillermo Ortiz Martínez, Mexico City
Guy Quaden, Brussels;
Jean-Pierre Roth, Zürich;
Masaaki Shirakawa, Tokyo;
Jean-Claude Trichet, Frankfurt am Main;
Paul Tucker, London;
Alfons Vicomte Verplaetse, Brussels;
Axel A. Weber, Frankfurt am Main;
Nout Wellink, Amsterdam;
Zhou Xiaochuan, Beijing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_for_In....

The BIS was formed in 1930. The main actors in its establishment were the then-Governor of The Bank of England, Montagu Norman, and his German counterpart Hjalmar Schacht, later Adolf Hitler's finance minister. The Bank was originally intended to facilitate reparation payments imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles after the First World War.[4] The need for the bank was suggested in 1929 by the Young Committee, and was agreed to in August of that year at a conference at the Hague. A charter for the bank was drafted at the International Bankers Conference at Baden Baden in November. The charter was adopted at a second Hague Conference on January 20, 1930.
During the period 1933–45, the board of directors of the BIS included Walter Funk, a prominent Nazi official, and Emil Puhl, who were both convicted at the Nuremberg trials after World War II, as well as Herman Schmitz the director of IG Farben and Baron von Schroeder, the owner of the J.H.Stein Bank, the bank that held the deposits of the Gestapo. There were allegations that the BIS had helped the Germans loot assets from occupied countries during World War II.

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Bank for Intl Settl. https://twitter.com/#!/BIS_org
@BIS_org
The Bank for International Settlements (BIS) promotes international, monetary and financial cooperation, and serves as the bank for central banks.
Basel, Hong Kong, Mexico City · http://www.bis.org/
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UKTV documentary, not tin. Listen to the US Treasury officials describe Satan.

Asi wrote..

We *NEED* a way to clear out debt every so often and I can't think of a better way [than a regular Jubilee] to do so.

How about simply letting free markets work? Why have we accumulated excessive levels of debt? IMO, it is primarily due to Government interference with the markets. Imagine how much more prudent banks (and those who buy the bonds they issue) would have been if Continental Illinois had been allowed to fail.

-Uwe-

Uwe wrote..

How about simply letting free markets work?

Why would the Federal Reserve - A PRIVATE CORPORATION - do that? They are getting bloody rich and no one is stopping them!! It's a 100-year joke!!! And you just got Rickrolled ....

Uwe: If we had "free markets" it would work.

******n, even when you lay it out in simple terms, smart people don't get it!! lmao

Read the bloody quotes!!!!

Bo: Who was that directed at?

Not you Asi, Uwe. We don't have 'free markets' and never will if the Federal Reserve and BIS are allowed to continue to control markets.

That's the whole point and one made again and again in the last 100 years by very, very smart people. The PRIVATELY-OWNED Federal Reserve controls inflation, deflation, not only in the US, but WORLDWIDE, via BIS.

This is global robbery!!!! It's the grandest ~conspiracy~ in plain site.

I mean, holy ****, I even posted the SF Federal Reserve telling us that BANKS themselves own shares!!!!

A sovereign should just spend the money into existence not give private bankers a vig.