Where Your State And Local Taxes Are Going
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-02-06 11:48
by Karl Denninger
in States
Ignore this thread
Where Your State And Local Taxes Are Going
 

Wondering what your taxes pay for?

If you live in Illinois, you might want to look at this....

I'm sure you'll find that the $250k+ wages are reasonable for public school teachers, right?  Or the half-million+ wages are reasonable for university employees?  Ever wonder why college tuitions are so high?  Half-million dollar+ salaries might have something to do with that, eh?

Hmmmm....

Pigs at the trough folks, and you're being extorted to pay for it.  Property taxes, income taxes, taxes taxes and more taxes.  All "for the childern", you see, even though teaching and administering a school should be a middle-class job (which means it pays a middle-class wage, and that, incidentally, is $50,000/year.)

Oh, it doesn't stop with "middle class" teachers either.  No no, we also have "middle class" cops and firefighters, who make well over $150,000 too.  Naw, there's nothing wrong with that.

When you're done throwing up at the active duty salaries, you might look at "retired".  There you will find people making more than $30,000 a month in retirement pension "benefits" -- promises your wonderful state and local governments made and now are fulfilling -- and guess who's getting the bill?  You are.

Then there are the State Worker's Compensation Claims.  Some are probably legitimate.  But I gotta admit, getting $300,000 worth of taxpayer funds due to "overexertion by lifting objects" sounds pretty good to me.  Where do I sign up to soak the taxpayer with this one?

If we, the people, ever want to do something about the cost of government, we had better start right here, especially when it comes to these salaries and retirement "benefits."  I don't care what people were promised -- it was and is being extorted from the people at gunpoint, and nobody has the right to do that.

These pensions need to be clawed back and stopped on a forward basis, and those working in "public service" need their salaries capped at no more than 125% of the median family income immediately and forevermore into the future.

You go into public service because you want to service the public, not to get rich.  To those who claim that we need "the best and brightest" in such jobs, I counter with the fact that volunteer fire departments worked just fine forever until unions forced them to be replaced by public tit-suckers, and that being a cop was historically always a middle-class job -- until we militarized the police forces.

This platinum-plated crap cannot continue, must not continue, and it is time for the people to rise and demand that it stop right here and now.

Period.

Discussion below (registration required to post)
 

Main Navigation
Full-Text Search & Archives
Archive Access
Get Adobe Flash player





Blogtalk 3:30 CT Mondays
Items To Look At


Discuss The Capital Markets along with daily technical analysis with our Gold Donor program.

Where We Are, Where We're Heading (2013) - The annual 2013 Ticker

Links and Blogroll
Our policy on reciprocal links: Send us an email with your information and why you think your blog or news site would make a good addition - in most cases reciprocal link requests will be granted.
Legal Disclaimer

The content on this site is provided without any warranty, express or implied. All opinions expressed on this site are those of the author and may contain errors or omissions.

NO MATERIAL HERE CONSTITUTES "INVESTMENT ADVICE" NOR IS IT A RECOMMENDATION TO BUY OR SELL ANY FINANCIAL INSTRUMENT, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO STOCKS, OPTIONS, BONDS OR FUTURES.

The author may have a position in any company or security mentioned herein. Actions you undertake as a consequence of any analysis, opinion or advertisement on this site are your sole responsibility.

Looking for "The Best of Market Ticker"? Check out
Ticker Classics.

Visit the forum to discuss this and other investing-related topics; see the FAQ on the forum for information about Gold Donor status including access to our technical analysis video server.

Market charts, when present, used with permission of TD Ameritrade/ThinkOrSwim Inc. Neither TD Ameritrade or ThinkOrSwim have reviewed, approved or disapproved any content herein.

The Market Ticker content may be reproduced or excerpted online for non-commercial purposes provided full attribution is given and the original article source is linked to. Please contact Karl Denninger for reprint permission in other media or for commercial use.

Submissions may be sent "over the transom" to The Editor at any time. To be considered for publication your submission must include full and correct contact information and be related to an economic or political matter of the day. All submissions become the property of The Market Ticker.

Leads on stories of current economic and political interest are always welcome. Our fax tip line is 850-897-9364; please include contact information with your transmission.

 
Comments.......
User: Not logged on
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 2  First12Last
User Info Where Your State And Local Taxes Are Going in forum [Market-Ticker]
Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
Green
saint louis
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
125 might be too low. But I'd think that 300 should be workable. That way none of them are making more than 150k. Also maybe a law which limits gov worker pay to no more on average than the private sector. If it's over that a the end of year you claw back the appropriate percentage from all.

----------
I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Genesis
Posts: 130764
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
125% is more than the median. Why should anyone in public service make more than the median wage?

"Oh we can't get people to work for that" sounds good to me. Then the job can go away entirely!

----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
Green
saint louis
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I don't think you can get engineering professors for 75k. I think that if you could somehow cap public employee average at the private average you would be on to something. And get rid of gold plated pensions and employee benefits as well

----------
I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Genesis
Posts: 130764
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I'm willing to cap it at 200% of the median if you have a PhD in a university.

Again, the job security with such positions is a worth a LOT.

----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
Green
saint louis
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I still think that professorships would go unfilled at 200%. Your point is spot on but I don't think Illinois or any other state could do this unless they all did.

Depending on whether or not Illinois can put this back together I made the biggest mistake or best decision of my life when I left State of Illinois employment. I could have retired in 6 years with a $65K pension if I had stayed. Wouldn't have done me much good if they couldn't pay it though. And my guess is they can't pay it.

----------
I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Trades50
Posts: 4216
Incept: 2007-10-30
Silver
Land of Tax and Spend
Online
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
My neighbor worked as a deputy chief for 30 years. He's collecting about $100k/year in pension. Then he collects another $17k/year for working 8 years as a dispatcher. Just 8 years and he collect $17k for the rest of his life. He's been retired 4 or 4 years now.

A lot of firemen have 2 jobs because of so much time off vs being on. I heard a daughter of a Chicago cop tell me her father was making $150k/year with retirement.

----------
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. - Thomas Jefferson
2dogs
Posts: 2941
Incept: 2009-03-25
Gold
Land of the Lost
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
Depending on whether or not Illinois can put this back together
Not gonna happen.

----------
You can't defeat the combined effects of massive voter fraud, the Free **** Army, and the entire bought and paid for media complex. This nation is done.
Flyingillini
Posts: 87
Incept: 2009-06-09
Green
Reno, NV
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
What a ****ing joke. Makes me want to vomit.
Tesla
Posts: 15542
Incept: 2008-04-03
Green A True American Patriot!
State of Disbelief
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
...but...but...but...teachers are grossly underpaid, right ? right ?

Only in government can people be grossly overpaid for an abysmal product.

and then there's this - read and vomit

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/06/educat....
Despite Focus on Data, Standards for Diploma May Still Lack Rigor

The next time people try to tell you how much the data-driven education reform programs of President George W. Bush (No Child Left Behind) and President Obama (Race to the Top) have raised academic standards in America, suggest that they take a look at the Jan. 24, 2012, New York State English Regents exam.

This year, for the first time, high schools students must score at least 65 on the English exam, as well as on four other state tests — math, science, global history and United States history — to earn a diploma.

The three-hour English test includes 25 multiple choice questions; one essay; and two short responses that are each supposed to be a paragraph long. A short response is scored 0 to 2 points. A student who gets 1’s on both responses has a pretty good shot at scoring 65 and passing the exam.

Here, from the state teachers’ scoring guide, is an excerpt from a short response written by an unnamed student. The guide says it deserves a score of 1:

These two Charater have very different mind Sets because they are creative in away that no one would imagen just put clay together and using leaves to create Art.

Theoretically, passing the English Regents would mean that a student could read and write.

Here is the topic sentence of another student’s short response that, according to the state guide, also deserves a 1:

In the poem, the poets use of language was very depth into it.

Until recently there were two main graduation options in New York. Students could earn a Regents-endorsed diploma by passing several state exams, or they could earn a local diploma. But the two-tier system has been phased out. No longer will there be a local diploma option.

New York’s last three education commissioners, all leaders in the reform movement, have been suspicious of assessment instruments that rely too heavily on people who work in schools.

State officials have instead chosen to use one English test to assess every high school student in the state, which has caused another fairly gigantic problem: How do you create a single graduation exam for 200,000 seniors when some are heading to the Ivy League and others to pump gas?

If the standard is set too high, so many will fail — including children with special education needs and students for whom English is a second language — that there will be a public outcry.

But if the standard is set too low, the result is a diploma that has little meaning.

So far, officials have opted to dumb down the state tests.

The New York State education commissioner, John B. King Jr., and the chancellor, Merryl H. Tisch, say they want to change that. They are considering raising the passing English score to 75.

They are also counting on a new set of national learning standards, known as the common core, which are currently being developed in more than 40 states. The hope is that more sophisticated standards detailing what children should know, coupled with more sophisticated curriculums and exams, will result in a more rigorous public education system.

“The D.O.E./Board of Regents position on the passing score for this exam, with attention to college and career readiness, will be re-examined in conjunction with administering a revised exam in this subject area aligned to the Common Core State Standards,” a spokesman for Dr. King wrote.

The current state English exam appears to be the easiest in memory. From 1999 to 2011, the test was given in two three-hour sessions that required students to write four essays. But a series of school closings caused by snowstorms forced state officials to reschedule the two-day exams, which was a logistical nightmare. So in 2009, the Board of Regents voted to reduce the exam to a single session. (In the decades before 1999, the English exam was also one three-hour session, but required students to answer 60 to 65 multiple choice questions and write two essays.)

The English exam is graded on a sliding scale, meaning there are several possible ways to score a 65. A student can:

¶ Score 1 on each of the short responses; 4 on the essay (which is graded on a 1-6 scale); and answer 17 of the 25 multiple choice questions correctly.

¶ Score 1 and 2 on the short responses; 3 on the essay; and answer 17 of 25 correctly.

¶ Score 1’s on the short responses; 3 on the essay; and answer 20 of 25 correctly.

Below are two “sentences” from an essay that according to the scoring guidelines, deserves a 3:

Even though their is no physical conflict withen each other. Their are jealousy problems between each other that each one wish could have.

The January essay was supposed to focus on a quotation from Goethe, “No two persons regard the world in exactly the same way.”

These are the first few sentences from an essay that should be given a score of 4:

In life, “no two people regard the world in exactly the same way,” as J. W. von Goethe says. Everyone sees and reacts to things in different ways. Even though they may see the world in similar ways, no two people’s views will ever be exactly the same. This statement is true since everyone sees things through different viewpoints.

Despite a decade of state English testing under No Child Left Behind, the results are disheartening, even in New York City, where a data-driven system was put in place by a former chancellor, Joel I. Klein, and Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, two giants of the reform movement.

Sad to say, during the Bloomberg administration, little if any progress has been made, if test results are to be believed. In 2003, 52.5 percent of fourth graders were proficient in English, compared with 51 percent in 2011. In 2003, 32 .6 percent of eighth graders were proficient, compared with 35 percent today.

Perhaps, as leaders of the reform movement seem to believe, there are new and higher standards, stronger curriculums and better tests just over the next hill to solve all our problems.

But four now, Wm. Shakespare must Be a turnover in his Grave (1 point).

----------
"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
Andysvw
Posts: 1745
Incept: 2010-06-26
Green
Tujunga Ca
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
They can not justify that kind of money. Even if they actually provided the claimed benefits to the public. The worst part to me is many of these people are working against us all. If they looked in the mirror they would know they are herding us all into a bad place. They know it deep down too.
The closer we get to the edge the more many of these people will get paid.They will stay the course.
The question to me is what comes after?
Will it be Earths darkest hour or a new dawn.
Mannfm11
Posts: 3545
Incept: 2009-02-28
Gold
DFW, Tx
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
I don't want to sign up, but I got to 60 police in Chicago making at least $150K a year. Most of them will be on the retirement rolls at over $100K a year, most likely inflation protected as soon as they can get their pay around age 50 to 55. Those type annuities cost over $2 million each.

The best way to control this stuff is to get rid of the jobs. Close the departments, cut the taxes, shoot them the middle finger and tell them to get a job. Most people with $2 million at 50 years old are still looked at as rich. These ****ers can spend every dime they touch until then and retire in high cotton. Most of the rest of us have to watch what we spend or we retire as paupers.

Andy, in part I think you are right, but I believe it will all go broke first.

----------
The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith

Eaglewwit
Posts: 6054
Incept: 2007-11-30
Green
SoCal
Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Welcome to the bandwagon Gen

Andysvw
Posts: 1745
Incept: 2010-06-26
Green
Tujunga Ca
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Mannfm11

I would really like to keep that from ever happening.
But if it does I want the new dawn.
Joejohns
Posts: 694
Incept: 2010-09-09
Green

Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Who cares what public school officials believe is a passing grade?

If you , as a parent, are not pushing your child , then you deserve the half-wit the public schools , in the main , will produce.

We pay taxes for many things that are a joke, that is no excuse and not much reason to get offended.

It will collapse or not, big deal.


Joejohns
Posts: 694
Incept: 2010-09-09
Green

Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Oh and as to fire and police , they are political payback in many areas.

I see 2-3 police and 4-10 fireman show up for a routine 911 call and they end up hauling 1PERSON to the ER. See this many times.


Unreal.
Bagbalm
Posts: 4260
Incept: 2009-03-19
Green
Just North of Detroit
Online
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
My wife works at a university. Her position is what I would have called a secretary before title inflation. The university has millions to spent on new buildings with expensive, impressive facades. They have not a nickel for the people who maintain those buildings, clean them, and perform all the support services that keep the place running efficiently.
The administration makes the sort of inflated wages you are talking about. The faculty does not. On the other hand they work what most of us would consider a part time job maybe three days a week. They shift as much work off on graduate students as possible for burger flipping wages.
At the moment they are trying to eliminate all the custodial services by their own employees and hire it out to contract workers. The place is dirty now. I fail to see any chance it will improve with contractors.
Many positions go empty because they are impossible to fill at their rates. They have no respect at all for a person without a degree. Too them a skilled machinist is the same as a lawn mower riding grounds person.
They had a job posted for a long time for an experimental machinist who could supervise others. Basically able to run any manual or CNC machine tool known to man. Able to do CAD design work also. The qualifications were such that anyone who met them could either be a shop foreman or run his own business.
They wanted someone to do this and supply his own personal tools for $28k/year. A similar set of skills in the real world outside the ivory walls commands $80- 100k as a hired man or more if you can run your own shop well.
I do know of one school that has such a machinist at a similar wage. The only reason the got him was that he is an alcoholic who lives in walking distance of the university. He doesn't need a driver's license and he has such a hard time managing his money and his personal life that he wore his bedroom slippers to work for several months before he was able to buy regular shoes. He'd never be allowed to wear slippers in a shop of course. But at the university he was in charge of all safety issues.

Sharon
Posts: 4352
Incept: 2008-02-10
Green
Odessa, Missouri
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
You go into public service because you want to service the public, not to get rich.


My observation would be that an awful lot of people go into public service primarily because they are "connected."

What this mainly means is that a lot of these jobs are no open to you and me. They are reserved for friends and relatives of people who are already sucking on the public tit.

It's also my observation that if you are related to the right people and decide you want a highly paid job, they will create one for you. You could become a consultant to the dietician to the building cafeteria and draw a nice salary without ever coming to work. Quite a few public service jobs are mere handouts, very costly welfare for the rich and connected.

----------
Semper ubi sub ubi.
Sharon
Posts: 4352
Incept: 2008-02-10
Green
Odessa, Missouri
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Tesla, I can tell you why the responses you quote got a "l." It was the first time in 50 years that the teacher grading the papers had seen a sentence with a capital letter at the beginning and a period at the end.

----------
Semper ubi sub ubi.
Midwestman
Posts: 2513
Incept: 2007-12-10
Green
Indiana
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Karl,

I looked at the Active Public School Teachers data. The highest one was $880k, then 400s and 300s. So I clicked on the graph icon next to them and found that the 880k was for 2001, then the salary falls to $100-125k. Similarly the 400s were for the first year (2006 in one case) and then the salary drops to $50k for the following years.

Could it be possible, the first year is a lump sum put into a retirement account or something like that? It does not look like the 880k is the actual salary of the individual.

I am all for holding public employees accountable, but as always it has to be with correct information. Do you know how the numbers are arrived at in this website. it requires a login etc so I kind of backed off from chasing it too much, figuring you would be able to put it in some context. Cheers.

----------
No crybabies! Stop it!
Quik49
Posts: 3265
Incept: 2007-12-11
Gold
out yonderway
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Our police chief retires then gets hired back...collecting 100k pension and then his 130 salary...all the while being a state representative...got ousted for violating the Hatch Act...and costs the city 250k in attorney fees to defend him.... The past fire chief retires and gets a full pension then gets hired as the fire marshal...as though in either case there was no one else in the forces to take thier places.... FUBAR

----------
UVA UVAM VIVENDO VARIA FIT

Eaglewwit
Posts: 6054
Incept: 2007-11-30
Green
SoCal
Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
You forgot to mention that they got disability pension because of a bad back, or bum knee and get half of it tax free.

The other part people don't get with these pensions is that they are not paying FICA, so multiply by 110% to get a comparable salary.
Steelhead23
Posts: 2043
Incept: 2008-09-09
Green
Portland OR
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Damn. My school-teacher wife, with a masters of education degree and twenty years of experience, earns about $60k and her pension would be about a third of that. What the blazes is going on in Illinois?

----------
"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" —Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild Benjamin Bernanke
For-profit commercial banks are a menace and should be eradicated
Genesis
Posts: 130764
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Bribery and graft. One of the largest reasons I got the **** out of the state.

----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Pika-steph
Posts: 54727
Incept: 2007-09-11
Gold A True American Patriot!
Live Free Or Die; US Army Est. 1775
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List


The real irony is that many of these 'public servants' fancy themselves as part of the '99%.'

----------
Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org/
inline
"The only regulation that really works is failure."--Rick Santelli
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 1 of 2  First12Last