| User Info
| On Intellectual And Logical Rigor in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Frankschoenburg
Posts: 178
Incept: 2011-08-05
Northbrook, IL
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Live within your means.
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Visualcsharp
Posts: 343
Incept: 2009-12-19
Round Rock, TX
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For me, I've long since applied logic and rationality in my daily life, although not from a "first principles" perspective. However, I have concluded after much thought that the most logical thing for me to do with regards to changing our world is not to try. There are simply too many people who are not intelligent; i.e., they exist much in the same way animals do. They act on instinct, base emotional desires and fear. There are simply not enough of us rationals (to use an MBTI term) to stem the tide. The most I can do is be happy in my existence, whether it's ideal or not, and try to better my and my family's life as much as I can within the rules of society.
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Jsp
Posts: 51
Incept: 2010-03-12
raleigh area
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Great topic. My First Principle...
Man is created in the image of God. -> Human life is sacred.
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Weezie
Posts: 6065
Incept: 2008-05-19
Caution: Congress at Work
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Thomas Jefferson sums it up the best: Quote:Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add “within the limits of the law,” because law is often but the tyrant’s will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual.
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The election is not a way to have a voice in government, but rather an impotent declaration if we prefer ketchup or mustard on our **** sandwich.
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Vitaeus
Posts: 53
Incept: 2010-10-05
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"I am responsible for me and mine"
expanded version, "I am responsible for the choices I make including the choice to do nothing or the choice to accept a lesser evil"
Finding an acceptable place somewhere between the right choice and an acceptable one is the hardest thing I have ever had to do and I find as Genesis has said that I do it more often than I am comfortable with.
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Goforbroke
Posts: 5333
Incept: 2007-11-30
Just call me 'Comrade'
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Reciprocity ("The Golden Rule") which is present in the vast majority of religions.
Karma ("You reap what you sow")
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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo
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Httpview
Posts: 42
Incept: 2010-01-19
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spelling? themsef, albe
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Andysvw
Posts: 1721
Incept: 2010-06-26
Tujunga Ca
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What a great idea. Get to know oneself, you will find peace. Many good things will be found down that road.
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Ribbit
Posts: 1780
Incept: 2007-09-10
Wales, UK
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Life, Liberty, and Property (which includes "Personal Dominion" due to the 'property' you have that is your physical self), properly safeguarded by the Rule of Law, impartially applied, without favour, in line with "If the Law makes the King, then the King is subject to the Law".
That's my "bottom line" drawn in the sand.
A line that has now, unfortunately, been worse than crossed, so it's "Lawful Rebellion" time.
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If the State was a Nanny, it would have been fired for incompetence, unreliability, and having its hands in the till, a very long time ago now.
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Abn0rmal
Posts: 9261
Incept: 2009-01-10
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Intangible concepts, including the concept of rights, don't exist.
It is possible however to classify behavior as being moral or immoral. Moral behavior is that which is universally preferable.
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Stuart
Posts: 28
Incept: 2011-12-15
Phoenix
Banned
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So why does the government have the right to tax my labor? Is it not my personal property, my labor?
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Smacktle
Posts: 1358
Incept: 2009-01-20
Texas
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Freedom to do as I please without hurting anyone else.
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The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier.
- George Bernard Shaw
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Ignorantsavage
Posts: 701
Incept: 2007-11-27
united States
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Abn0rmal wrote..Intangible concepts, including the concept of rights, don't exist. Is that so? Guess government doesn't exist then, being an intangible concept created by humans; good luck explaining that one to the IRS. Further under that criteria, morality could also be said not to exist, being another intangible. There are plenty of historical (and even some modern-day) societies that regard things such as child******to be perfectly "moral". Intangible or not, I say my right of self-ownership exists, and if necessary, I will enforce my right with some very tangible tools. |
Abn0rmal
Posts: 9261
Incept: 2009-01-10
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Ignorantsavage wrote..Guess government doesn't exist then, being an intangible concept created by humans. Correct. "Government" is an idea in our minds that helps us to classify aspects of tangible reality. People, buildings, guns, rivers, continents, trees, and oceans are all things which exist. Ignorantsavage wrote..Further under that criteria, morality could also be said not to exist, being another intangible. Also correct. It is a classification which we can use to describe behaviors. "Blue" doesn't exist either. Photons which possess a certain amount energy exist and we use the invented concept of blue in order to refer to them. Ignorantsavage wrote..There are plenty of historical (and even some modern-day) societies that regard things such as child******to be perfectly "moral". This is not relevant to a concept that is designated as universally preferable behavior. |
Eighty6thebs
Posts: 4180
Incept: 2007-06-26
It's contained to sub-prime!
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"I have concluded after much thought that the most logical thing for me to do with regards to changing our world is not to try"
Interesting. I need a bottle of wine to ponder that one.
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"Sounds to me like you guys a couple of bookies" - Billy Ray Valentine
"No I am not scared, and neither should you be!" - Iraqi Information Minister
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Nocents
Posts: 187
Incept: 2009-08-26
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I would like to know why a libertarian would register for anything at all?
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Tinfoil
Posts: 578
Incept: 2007-12-01
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One of my favorite posts. Applies universally to so much of the insanity we see daily. Where the hell has people's common sense gone? I'm beginning to buy into the flouride conspiracy... there must be some explanation for people taking family advice from laura schlessinger. (Boggle)
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Httpview
Posts: 42
Incept: 2010-01-19
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grammar?
Shouldn't "all persons own themself"
be
"all persons own themselves" and I think "themself" is a singular word..ICBW
"The standard reflexive form corresponding to they and them is themselves, as in they can do it themselves. The singular form themself, first recorded in the 14th century, has re-emerged in recent years corresponding to the singular gender-neutral use of they, as in this is the first step in helping someone to help themself."
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3535
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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Nocents, the old libertarians pretty much looked at it that way. Here is some writing from one of the best of the first half of the 1900's. Frank Chodorov. http://www.lewrockwell.com/chodorov/chod....The most important maintenance of liberty is evidently peace. There is no greater slavery than being hustled into the Army, given a rifle and sent off to die or get maimed to fight some politico's war. There hasn't been anyone uninvitedly attack the US since the War of 1812. Even then, Congress screwed up and declared war over a question the President sent them. I highly doubt 9/11 would have occurred without the US constantly meddling in foreign affairs. The Maine was a staged act and the Lucitania was hauling war goods for JP Morgan interests along with passengers. Pearl Harbor literally followed FDR painting the Japanese in a corner, then pulling our pants down and asking for them to hit us there. FDR was too busy waging a naval war in the Atlantic to protect Hawaii. Rothbard, in his book "The Betrayal of the American Right", quoted Joseph Kennedy as being against the Cold War, stating that if a country wanted to go Communist, we couldn't stop them. I have come to wonder what influence the old man had on his son, the President and maybe what was really behind JFK getting killed. Eisenhour forwarned us of the military-industrial complex and had actually worked for them, despite this statement. How much government do we need? I believe a hell of a lot less than we have. The portion of government that regulates banking could go right away as far as I am concerned, together with the deposit insurance. They would be broke come sunrise. We would lose our money, but at least they couldn't use it to steal all of our property in the meantime. Once that occurred, the money would be nothing but scrip, as they would own all the collateral.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Mike2007
Posts: 24
Incept: 2011-02-27
Oakland, CA
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"I think, therefore I am."
And I try to constantly improve myself in it.
In second place for me Kant's categorical imperative
"Act only according to that maxim whereby you can, at the same time, will that it should become a universal law."
or simplified
"Do as you would be done by."
I have come a long way around to think it is NOT *general* intentional logical failure as the central crux of today.
Trial and Error requires setting of expectations beforehand and evaluation of the results afterwards. We have gone a long way to falsify/misinterpret/cherry-pick/ignore the results, or don't even set clear expectations anymore, and mostly skip the test if results can be repeated.
That's a methodological problem (hmm, in my native tongue that word doesn't have "logical" within it...)
- I might be splitting hairs here, but to be actively "tolerated by the masses" they would need to be aware of it, and I don't think they are.
But maybe you also intended to cover that aspect, Karl.
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Myopia
Posts: 83
Incept: 2010-09-16
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To use the start of a Christopher Hitchens quote
"Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself."
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Nocents
Posts: 187
Incept: 2009-08-26
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Wow! Thanks for introducing me to Chodorov, Mannfm11. He writes some powerful stuff although it takes some effort to comprehend.
Well worth the time to read, definitely!
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Utabintarbo
Posts: 79
Incept: 2009-01-29
Detroit
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Quote:Intangible concepts, including the concept of rights, don't exist.
It is possible however to classify behavior as being moral or immoral. Moral behavior is that which is universally preferable. Your first premise invalidates your second (confirmed by you in a later post). In any case, I would contend that your view of "existence" is myopic, in that you seem to only acknowledge metaphysical existence, and eschew epistemological existence. That one cannot touch or see a concept does not mean that concept has no existence. Concepts have effects. This denial of "intellectual product" does not conform to the reality we have all about us, as we can see the effects of concepts everywhere. Nothing not in its natural state could exist without the concepts required to arrange natural substances into a more useful state. Problems arise when men conflate epistemological existence with metaphysical existence. You seem to throw the baby out with the bath water and deny the former outright.
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Let the market decide!
When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing, you may know that your society is doomed.--Ayn Rand
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Abn0rmal
Posts: 9261
Incept: 2009-01-10
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Utabintarbo wrote..I would contend that your view of "existence" is myopic, in that you seem to only acknowledge metaphysical existence, and eschew epistemological existence. That one cannot touch or see a concept does not mean that concept has no existence. The only entities which exist in reality are those which can be empirically verified. Concepts do not satisfy this criteria so they aren't real in the same way that entities composed of matter and energy are real. Eggs exist. The concept "dozen" can be applied to certain arrangements of objects, including eggs but the concept itself has no existence separate from what it describes. You can't go to Plato's Grocery Store of Pure Forms, buy a box of "dozen" and make a concept McMuffin out of it. "Dozen" exists nowhere outside our own imagination. |
