Chinese Material and/or Fabrication Fail?
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-02-04 14:05
by Karl Denninger
in Energy
Ignore this thread
Chinese Material and/or Fabrication Fail?
 

Hmmmm.

The two reactors at the San Onofre nuclear-power station near San Clemente, Calif., will remain shut down this weekend while federal safety officials investigate why critical—and relatively new—equipment is showing signs of premature wear.

The problem surfaced Jan. 31, when one of the units sprang a leak in a pipe called a steam tube, releasing small amounts of radioactive steam and tripping radiation alarms. Operators shut down the reactor four hours later.

The problem rests in the steam generators in these plants (they're pressurized water reactors.)  These are sort of like a car radiator, except that both sides are in water (if you have a boat with an inboard engine you've probably got a heat exchanger that is much like this in the cooling system.)  The steam generator has primary water under very high pressure that takes the heat off the nuclear reaction and uses it to boil water in the secondary side, which turn turns the generating turbines.  The advantage of this design is that the water on the primary side never boils and it is physically isolated from the steam turbine equipment.  Since the primary side water becomes activated over time (that is, it is somewhat radioactive) this prevents the turbine equipment from being contaminated -- at least in theory.  A boiling-water reactor (such as in Fukushima) on the other hand has only one loop; there are advantages and disadvantages to both designs.

Unfortunately like a car radiator these tubes wear out and can leak.  Due to the high pressures and temperatures involved the tubes are made out of a special alloy. 

These reactors were shut down a couple of years ago after the original steam generators had deteriorated to the point that they needed replacement -- they were nearly 30 years old at the time and had reached the end of their service life.  The replacements were made out of a somewhat different alloy that was intended to address cracking problems that had intermittently shown up in the old design.

But now, with only two years of runtime on the new generators, some of the tubes are 10-20% eroded and a few had reached 35%.  This is important because the usual engineering standards allow for 30% erosion at which point the tubes must be taken out of service, and when about 10% or so of the total have been removed from service the entire generator has to be removed and either reworked or replaced.  This is a rate of deterioration that is several times that of the original, more than 5x as fast as expected!

Mitsubishi Heavy made the new replacements -- the old ones were made here in the United States.  Of course Mitsubishi Heavy is a Japanese company, but one wonders what the original source of the materials that went into that tube bundle actually was.

So here's the question: Was the choice of alloy wrong -- an engineering failure -- or was there a manufacturing and inspection problem responsible? 

And if the latter, where did the materials come from that the tubes were fabricated out of, and exactly where did that fabrication take place?

I suspect that I'm not going to like the answers to these questions.

Discussion below (registration required to post)
 

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User Info Chinese Material and/or Fabrication Fail? in forum [Market-Ticker]
Patriarch
Posts: 982
Incept: 2007-10-18

your account summary
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1. Subcontracted to a Chinese manufacturer.

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Our elected take an oath to serve. Time to add: “I will not serve in a capacity which I am not able to comprehend or am incapable of by mental defect of any kind, nor will I use the excuse of intellective deficiency if found in violation of this oath/affirmation”, which backs charging wayward politicians with treason.
Peterm99
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Given that 1., the answer would likely be embarrassing to TPTB, and 2., it is relatively simple to invoke "national security" for anything involving the word "nuclear", I would expect that any in depth investigative results will be only minimally disclosed and only sugar-coated explanations will be disseminated to the public at large.

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". . . the Constitution has died, the economy welters in irreversible decline, we have perpetual war, all power lies in the hands of the executive, the police are supreme, and a surveillance beyond Orwell’s imaginings falls into place." - Fred Reed
Jazen
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****cago
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May well have been made in Japan with material purchased from China. Best way to know, look at the metal, most Chinese metal that breaks, looks like zinc, probably because a majority of it is. Which is ****.

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Goforbroke
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Purchase subcontracted material and labor as cheaply as possible. That way, there's more money available to go into your own pocket!

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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo
Widgeon
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The money they'll save from buying cheap parts can be used to help relocate the population after the meltdown.

Jwm_in_sb
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Crap ....I live 40 miles directly south of that plant. just drove past it last weekend .
Etz
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Yep, most chinese "steel" is ****.

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Widgeon
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Probably didn't put any carbon in it. LOL.

Analog
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Japanese steam generators? They shoulda been okay.

But i've been nervous about Chinese nuke plants since this apartment building fell down - somebody saw no need for so substantial a foundation...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktM__i-8....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew....
Markgoldman
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My last big construction gig had Indian and Chinese mechanical piping throughout the project. Good skilled welders would make nice connections but the pipes weak point was the seam running the length of it and now they have miles of the **** that splits under pressure.

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Consent Withdrawn.
Phoenix
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SC
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How do you think the new Oakland Bay Bridge will hold up with all the structural steel and fabrication being done in China?
Widgeon
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Pitz
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voluntary resigned
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I know that some of the Ontario, Canada-based PWR's have encountered flow-induced vibrations that have reduced tube life significantly. The uprate process that has been pursued by most utilities over the years may not be adequately looking at some of these issues.

Generally speaking, steam generator (HP/LP heat exchanger) replacement is a standard part of the overall BOM for system uprates.

I personally believe that there are some very serious systemic issues in the US nuclear industry. First of all, they are not attracting the best and brightest. The obsession with cost containment/control has meant that the firms haven't been going on recruiting drives for the top quality engineers for years. Nuclear industry workers aren't very highly paid either. The other big problem is that major decisions are being made by panels of lawyers and MBA's sitting around a table and at the NRC, rather than, in many cases, by engineers. Engineers, generally speaking, do not have the independance to step forward and identify the true state of operations/condition of plant, or the true scope of a problem without putting their jobs on the line.
Analog
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Tubes used to be Inconel, a stainless steel alloy...
To everyone's surprise the water chemistry that had been used for decades in carbon steel boilers didnt work at all well in these stainless ones..

i'm tracking CRS and ATI for next dip.
Marvinmartian
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Pasadena, CA
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I seem to recall that some PWR pressure vessel heads had excessive corrosion.

The heads in some Ohio reactors had to be replaced after only a few years.

Discussion found at:
http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collec....
Abn0rmal
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Analog wrote..
Inconel, a stainless steel alloy
Inconel is not steel, it is a nickel-copper alloy.
Free
Posts: 3242
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Quote:
1. Subcontracted to a Chinese manufacturer.


Quote:
Yep, most chinese "steel" is ****.


Why am I not surprised by this?

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Goforbroke
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Quote:
they are not attracting the best and brightest
The "best and brightest" are going to Wall Street ... my brother's a PhD Chemical Engineer/MBA Finance from Princeton/MIT/Sloan School. Guess where he works?

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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo
Oldpool
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fail

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Liberty, Comrade!
Analog
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Inconel is a registered trademark of Special Metals Corporation that refers to a family of austenitic nickel-chromium-based superalloys.[1]

Nickel (plus Cobalt)....................................................72.0 min.
Chromium..................................................................14.0-17.0
Iron ..........................................................................6.00-10.00
Carbon ......................................................................0.15 max.
Manganese ................................................................1.00 max
Sulfur.......................................................................0.015 max.
Silicon .......................................................................0.50 max.
Copper......................................................................0.50 max.


http://www.specialmetals.com/documents/I....
Andrew123
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Analog, is your point on crs and ati that you expect them to sell off as the utility of stainless steel is questioned, or are you saying buy on dips because they will be taking share from foreign manufacturers as quality questions materialize? Thanks in advance for any response.
Ben
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This nickel-chromium-zinc stuff is literally everywhere in China, and it does not last at all. It's in every handrail, door handle and sculpture. All cabbie safety cages are made from it, as are all the security grates over most apartment windows.

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J0nx
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I suspect that you'll never find the answer to those questions.

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Bagbalm
Posts: 4259
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I used to make molds. We used a steel designated P-20 for small molds facing a short or medium life expectancy that had to be made quickly. P-20 came moderately hard already so it didn't have to be heat treated and that saved a great deal of time. For a more durable mold we had more time to make we favored S-7.
When Chinese P-20 became available at much lower cost our supplier sent us some. I started a job using about 16 fairly large inserts - about a foot cube.
I had three days work in sawing them - rough cutting them to dimension +.020" on the mill - putting coolant passages and tapped holes to bolt them in the mold base and radiusing corners.
When I finally got them over to the surface grinder and started taking them to finished size there was something strange.
As the machining marks vanished the metal dust from the grinding lay in lines on all sides of the block.
Every one of the Chinese steel blocks was just full of cracks.
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