How I Came To Register Libertarian
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2012-01-25 11:59
by Karl Denninger
in Liberty
Ignore this thread
How I Came To Register Libertarian
 

...and why you should consider it too.

Let's start with the preamble of the Okaloosa County Libertarian Party's Constitution and Bylaws:

We, the members of the Libertarian Party, challenge the cult of the omnipotent state and defend the rights of the individual.

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives, and have the right to live in whatever manner they choose, as long as they do not forcibly interfere with the equal right of others to live in whatever manner they choose.

Governments throughout history have regularly operated on the opposite principle, that the State has the right to dispose of the lives of the individuals and the fruits of their labors. Even within the United States, all political parties other than our own grant to government the right to regulate the lives of individuals and seize the fruit of their labor without their consent.

We, on the contrary, deny the right of any government to do these things, and hold that where governments exist they must not violate the rights of any individual: namely 1) the right to life – accordingly we support the prohibition of the initiation of physical force against others; 2) the right to liberty of speech and action – accordingly we oppose all attempts by government to abridge the freedom of speech and the press, as well as government censorship in any form; and 3) the right to property – accordingly we oppose all government interference with private property, such as confiscation, nationalization, and eminent domain, and support the prohibition of robbery, trespass, fraud and misrepresentation.

Since governments, when instituted, must not violate individual rights, we oppose all interference by government in the areas of voluntary and contractual relations among individuals. People should not be forced to sacrifice their lives and property for the benefit of others. They should be left free to deal with one another as free traders; and the resultant economic system, the only one compatible with the protection of the individual rights, is the free market.

This reads in a rather familiar way, doesn't it?  Indeed it does, and indeed it should:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

You know where that came from, right?  (If not please check your citizenship at the door on the way out!)

But let's back up and look at the Libertarian principles again -- specifically, one of them:

We hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives

There's your first principle

You either believe and intend to live to this, or you do not.  It is a binary choice with no shade of gray.

Either you, and only you, have the right of dominion (ownership) over your person and nobody else does, or you do not.

This does not mean you cannot cede that authority for a period of time and on a voluntary basis to some other entity (e.g. your idea of what God is, to military service, etc) but it does mean that nobody else can compel you to do so.

The difficulty with first principles is that they're inviolate.  One either believes in them or one does not.  Once you adopt one you are then forced to square all your other political principles against this first one, and if you cannot fit what you wish to adopt into that first principle then you must modify or abandon whatever it was that you intended to do.

The problem with the Republican and Democrat parties is that they have no first principle that comports with The Declaration and Constitution.

A recent little blowup of controversy related to the Catholic Church will provide a sufficient example for both sides of the aisle.

The new video message is the latest step in an escalating and historically unprecedented confrontation between the Roman Catholic Church and an American president.

It centers around what the American Catholic bishops see as the Obama administration’s efforts to restrict the right of Catholic citizens and institutions to freely exercise their religion as guaranteed by the 1st Amendment to the Constitution.

This time, Dolan said, the administration is moving to violate the 1st Amendment by forcing Catholics to purchase health insurance plans that cover sterilizations and artificial contraceptives, including abortifacients. The church teaches that sterilization, artificial contraception and abortion violate the natural law and that Catholics cannot be involved in them. Dolan called on Americans to contact elected officials and call for the administration’s health-insurance regulation to be rescinded.

No they're not.  Let me explain.

There is nothing prohibiting Catholics from forming into a group to obtain health insurance under a group policy.  Such a group would presumably all be comprised of people who believe as Dolan does.  They would therefore all not use such services and drugs, even though available.  As a result they would not be paying for them either, as the rate base on which they were assessed would not include any use of same.

That's a half-Libertarian solution to this dilemma, but it's only half a solution because it still recognizes the right of the government to force you to buy insurance in the first place.

The Libertarian position is that forced purchases of anything are immoral and violate your first-principle right of dominion over yourself.

But see, Dolan has no problem with that.  He's perfectly fine with the government sticking its stiletto-heeled-boot into and through your neck provided that it does so in a way that is theologically compatible with what he believes.

Dolan takes neither of the liberty-based positions available to him in his editorial.  He is not so much interested in trying to protect his own liberty and those who believe as he does, but rather he is interested in restricting your liberty by attempting to declare various forms of family planning "immoral" and restricting their availability.  Worse, he can't even get to where he ends up by using a "pro-life" position (hypocritical as it often is among those who make that claim) as he includes both barrier methods of birth control and voluntary sterilization in his complaint, both of which prevent fertilization in the first instance.

This is rank hypocrisy; Establishment prohibits all preference for one religious set of beliefs over another (or over none) and Dolan deserves a pointy red hat for his utterances in this regard, not the reverence normally afforded a Cardinal's cap.

Dolan's position is consistent with the state owning your person.  Do you agree that The State owns you?  If so, you can then proceed to his argument and ultimately you might agree with Dolan. 

If not, you're a Libertarian.

Now let's look at another difficult case -- the recent spate of crude meth labs blowing up and landing people in burn units.

A crude new method of making methamphetamine poses a risk even to Americans who never get anywhere near the drug: It is filling hospitals with thousands of uninsured burn patients requiring millions of dollars in advanced treatment - a burden so costly that it's contributing to the closure of some burn units.

So-called shake-and-bake meth is produced by combining raw, unstable ingredients in a 2-liter soda bottle. But if the person mixing the noxious brew makes the slightest error, such as removing the cap too soon or accidentally perforating the plastic, the concoction can explode, searing flesh and causing permanent disfigurement, blindness or even death.

I looked up the so-called "shake and bake" method (online at that) and found several crude "recipes."  I know enough about chemistry to immediately recognize that these forms of creating this drug are extremely dangerous, and if you attempt them you've got a good shot at ending up severely injured or dead from exactly the sort of explosion being discussed in the article, and what's worse is that the chemicals involved are strong acids and bases, which means chemical burns will be added to your injuries.

Given the prevalence of these incidents anyone thinking about doing this has to know about the risks.  Yet they choose to undertake them anyway.

Compounding the problem is the fact that due to EMTALA (a Reagan-era law) hospitals must treat emergency patients irrespective of ability to pay.  And these are emergency patients.

So we have several problems here.  First, we made these drugs illegal.  Then, we cracked down on the means that people used to produce them anyway, driving abusers of these drugs to more-dangerous means of producing what they were trying to obtain and radically increasing the street price.  And finally, we wind up paying for it again several times over when the drug addict's lab literally blows up in his face, severely injuring him or her.

At the same time I can get ****faced drunk all day long and that's perfectly legal, despite the fact that doing so is known to cause liver cancer.  I can then force society to pay for the treatment.  I can also smoke like a chimney, despite knowing that it is likely to cause heart disease, emphysema and lung cancer, and bill society to pay for the treatment.   Or I can choose to have unprotected anal sex and again, if I contract HIV doing so force society to pay for my treatment once again.

If you don't see the problem here you're not paying attention.

Dominion over one's person is a two-edged sword.  The meth addict isn't going to stop using meth.  We know this because if the law was a deterrent or even the risk of outright massive disfigurement or painful death was, there wouldn't be people blowing themselves up in these makeshift labs. 

But there are.

HIV is a nasty way to die.  Were this a sufficient deterrent nobody would engage in unprotected anal sex.  But people do. 

Emphysema and lung cancer is a nasty way to die as well, as is liver cancer.  Yet people still smoke and drink to excess, despite knowing these facts.

In the 1920s we attempted an experiment in America.  We made liquor illegal in 1919 with the 18th Amendment and repealed it in 1933 with the 21st Amendment.

Why did the 18th Amendment fail?

That's rather simple: Despite being illegal, people did not stop drinking.

What they did do is make alcohol through much more dangerous devices, such as makeshift stills using old automobile radiators that had utilized lead solder.  The lead leached into the alcohol and caused lead poisoning in the people who drank the booze.  Stills occasionally blew up, causing burns and blast damage, and then there were the gangs.

Much like today's drug gangs prohibition made the transport and production of alcohol a thing that could not be protected in the courts.  As a result disputes were settled the "uncivilized" way -- with guns.  Shoot-outs and similar unsavory behavior became common and the government of course responded with ramping up police-state tactics, escalating what amounted to a domestic civil war.

But those who wanted to drink did not stop drinking, just as those who want to take drugs will not stop doing so today.  Eventually the people wised up and repealed the 18th Amendment, demanding that the government stop causing violence by interfering in consensual adult behavior (in this case, transacting in the use of booze.)

Libertarian thought won one round.

So what solutions do we have to today's view?  The jackbooted government solution is more laws.  But will they work?  History says no, they will not.

Libertarians are often (derogatorily) called "Republicans who wish to smoke pot."  Were it only so simple, we could all give up with the quest for liberty today.

Rather, the Libertarian view requires that one examine each step of what is broken here against the first principle of personal dominion and see if you can square it.

So let's start.

First, the crime of using meth itself. Does prohibiting the mere use of a substance comport with personal dominion?  No.  Therefore, there is no law that can be supported that prohibits the use of a substance -- including meth.  This also means that if you believe in personal dominion you cannot support laws that prohibit the use of tobacco, alcohol, or for that matter consensual gay sex.

It simply does not matter if the substance or act is personally dangerous.  If you believe in personal dominion then you believe in the right to do things that are personally dangerous!  This is a binary choice -- if you have the right to eat until you get fat and fail to exercise, if you have the right to smoke, or if you have the right to drink then you also have the right to use recreational drugs that could harm your health within the confines of your own residence and/or to engage in any sort of consensual personal conduct between two or more adults that you may desire. 

You cannot support the right to be fat, to smoke, to screw, or to drink and support drug prohibition and be consistent in your beliefs -- if you make that argument you're a damned hypocrite as you don't support personal liberty at all.

Now what do we do about the burn problem?  That's a different matter -- you see, personal dominion means that you do not have the right as a meth abuser (or for that matter as anyone else) to force other people to pay for your treatment either.  That is, your acts and their effects on your person are uniquely your responsibility.  This same principle applies to smokers, drinkers, and those who like to engage in gay sex.  You have the right to purchase a private insurance contract to cover those risks, but not the obligation to do so and if you choose not to you also have no right to force others to cover your expenses after the fact.

This does not prevent others from covering your expense on an entirely-voluntary (e.g. through charity care) basis.  But it does prevent you from forcing others to do so.

Adopting such a position means you cannot support Medicare or Medicaid, say much less Obamacare, as all are forced transfers of money from taxpayers to those who enjoy the benefits, in one case at a rate of more than four times what was "paid in" and in the other case without any "pay in" at all!

First principles are funny things.  When you actually have them and believe in them you find all sorts of problems we have today in our government and its budget aren't really problems.  They all stem from one place -- the desire to control others.  To direct their lives, to tell them how to live, and to violate their fundamental liberty interests -- fundamental rights that most people believe were endowed by the very creator they claim to worship!

Think about that for a minute.

On the one hand most people in this country claim to believe in a God that endowed us all with certain unalienable rights -- life, liberty, and the pursuit (ed. but not the guarantee!) of happiness.

But then, under the label of "Democrat" or "Republican" we vote for, support, and enable the enactment of laws that blaspheme what we claim to believe, in that we then intentionally violate those very same liberty interests we claim come from that God.

When I was 20 I didn't process this cleanly, and I suspect neither do most other people.

But now, as I come toward pushing 50, I can no longer wave away and dismiss the logical inconsistency of the positions adopted and put forward by either Democrats or Republicans.

I believe in personal dominion as first principle.

I believe I was endowed with unalienable rights, and that the founders were correct to declare same, and that all of these flow from the first principle of personal dominion.

I believe that this endowment came from God (although if you believe they came from Darwin, that's fine too.  None of us will know until we die, at which point it's too late to change your mind.)

As a consequence I cannot support, or vote for, those who have, do and will in the future disrespect and abrogate that first principle.

As such I am left with only one political party's pole today where I can doff my cap and hang my coat.

It's marked Libertarian.

Discussion below (registration required to post)
 

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User Info How I Came To Register Libertarian in forum [Market-Ticker]
Dakine2004
Posts: 9231
Incept: 2007-10-23
Gold A True American Patriot!
MD.MI.NC.SD.
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I'll stick with Groucho...
Mrbill
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Yep. Well said.
Ramthebulls
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Queens, NY
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Bravo. Amazing post. smiley

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Umbrage is like love. No matter how much someone takes, there's always more for you to give.
Duc888
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I agree 100%.

Welcome to the terrorist list. By supporting personal sovereignty you are 100% at odds with current US policy both inside and outside our borders.

It is a fact, there are "no shades of gray".

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...burp
Jsp
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raleigh area
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Quote:
It is a fact, there are "no shades of gray".

Don't you feel that taxation is a shade of gray? Otherwise you must conclude that all taxation is immoral.
Jstanley01
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San Antonio, Texas
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inline

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You can't cheat an honest man. ~P.T. Barnum
Pika-steph
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Live Free Or Die; US Army Est. 1775
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Me too! Once I got all that sorted over the past few years, things are a lot more simple.

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Stop the Looting; Start Prosecuting - http://www.FedUpUSA.org/
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"The only regulation that really works is failure."--Rick Santelli
Duc888
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I believe the slave tax is immoral. I am not against an apportioned usage / consumption tax.

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...burp
Genesis
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Jsp: Totally disagree. The Libertarian Party believes in The Constitution. Once you believe that any government form is appropriate and acceptable then it must be funded, which means somewhere a tax must be levied. You can call it what you want but it's a tax.

If you want to take an anarcho-capitalist position my Ticker threads would be a bad place to try to do it.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?

Steelhead23
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My only objection to Libertarian ideals is the perspective that individuals have no social responsibility, or collective interests. Let's take the meth user case. Sure she is free to ruin her life - I agree. But what if she has kids? Do we suddenly not care about them? I fully support individual liberty, but I also support publicly funded education, health care, and other safety net programs. I honestly wish Libertarians were less doctrinaire about these things. You see, once individual liberty is truly respected, social programs supported by the majority cannot infringe those rights. Still, if the electionswere tomorrow my vote would go to Mr. Paul. - and I know he strongly disagrees with social programs.

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"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" —Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild Benjamin Bernanke
For-profit commercial banks are a menace and should be eradicated
Rvacha
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Agreed, excellent Ticker, one of my faves

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Randy123
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I'm 32. I've voted for Nader in every Presidential election I've had the opportunity to vote in.

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China is the Enemy. Wake Up.

New Normal. Same As The Old Awful.
Otiswild
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Tesla
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Steel wrote..
once individual liberty is truly respected, social programs supported by the majority cannot infringe those rights.


How is it liberty of the fruits of your labor are taken from you by the force of the State ? Now your surplus is taken by government and not available for private charity. Social programs, if indeed supported by the majority, can have funding provided by private charity of those who support such programs just as readily as using money confiscated by the government for redistribution. Are you saying the Red Cross, Salvation Army, Goodwill, Doctors w/o Borders, etc etc do nothing with the hundreds of millions of donations they receive every year ? Or are they not as important as Head Start, which has proven to be an everlasting government "safety" net that has made no difference with the billions it's wasted over the years ?

That's the libertarian position. How is it antithetical to helping ?

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"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes

"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
Ignorantsavage
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I, too, have a problem understanding how almost all taxes as we currently have them in the USA could square with the first principle described as "we hold that all individuals have the right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives" (I simplify this to the term "self-ownership", as ownership entails control).

In 1690, John Locke wrote on the nature of property ownership. He concluded that by mixing a resource with one's labor using the body (and mind) owned by the individual, owned property was produced. (Specifically, chapter 5, section 28 of "Second Treatise of Government": http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/t.... )

Therefore, taxes on property either in the common understanding such as a house or on incomes is abhorrent in the extreme as such taxes are a direct claim of ownership on a human individual, aka slavery.

Yet, there is no disagreement from me that for services provided, payment must be rendered. Optional, avoidable fees (e.g. fuel taxes) are a much better method to go about funding government services, as in most cases the users of the service provide the funding - and can avoid paying the fee by not using the service and as a bonus avoid getting a tax collector's gun stuck up their nose. For "common services" that "everybody uses" such as the military, the actual question seems to be to be less about how such fees must be collected and more about whether or not the "service" should even exist in its current form. As a stopgap measure, perhaps such fees should be made voluntary in-fact rather than in-fiction.

Genesis
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Two words: Fair Tax

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Mannfm11
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As long as we have an interventionist war government, there will be diminishing freedom in America. War on drugs, war on poverty, war on crime, war in terror, war in Vietnam, .....

Libertarian isn't a new party or group. H.L. Mencken was the mouthpiece of the movement almost 100 years ago. Rothbard is probably its modern saint. Ron Paul is Libertarian #1, though he is running as a Republican. The message has no other platform and that includes the Libertarian nominee. Libertarianism isn't mainstreamable and any attempt to do so will destroy what it is. It can only be forwarded by the education of its followers and enough others to win at the ballot box. Remember the true philosophy is about the government not doing something.

There is a debate here often about forms of money. I am not known around the net as a gold bug, because the system we have will prove stronger than gold, until it is thrown off or collapses. But, when the Constitution was passed, there was only 1 international money, gold. Coin money and regulate the value thereof. Regulate against what? Clearly foreign coin. We needed a unit of exchange and a value attached to it. We have nothing like that today, but instead have credit, the value of which is manipulated by bankers on both sides of the ocean, through the system of credits and debits.

There is law and there is legal and there are rules and any of the legals and rules that break the law are broken by the law. One of my junior high friends was a gold bug by the time he was 18 years old and was a Libertarian. He used to carry around pieces of paper with a story on them. They were called paper camels. The king wanted to buy some camels, but he was out of gold due to the length of the war. So, he put out paper redeemable in gold that he no longer possessed. Upon being offered one of these paper notes, a camel rancher pulled out a piece of paper and wrote on it, "this is a camel". Upon receipt, the king ordered the guy executed. Point being the government was either going to swindle the guy out of the camel or steal it, which is what this game of paper money is about.

In order, there are metals, credit money and script. Metals can be stored and in fact, it doesn't require a government to buy and sell with gold. Script is good if you think at some point you are going to need a roll of toilet paper while out hunting or in case the stall doesn't provide one. Credit is illustrated by the charts Karl puts out to make his points. In the form of credit, the borrower is required to pledge his property to the creator of credit in return for the money. If the money isn't repaid, the bank gets the property. It was the borrower that put up their property and the bank that made the promise to pay. But the banks never pay, because they don't have the money in the first place. Without government intervention, there would be few bankers and they would all have to be rich enough to have their own security force. But, then again, once the banker goes broke, his army leaves and banking would become a more hazardous job than being a Navy Seal. Corpses of guys like Dimon and Pandit would be targets in traveling carnivals.

For more information on the Libertarian movement, here is a pdf of a book that Rothbard wrote in the early 1970's, that the mises institute has recently published. They have the book on sale for $20, but you can read it for nothing. I'm tempted to buy a few copies. Until people realize the serial wars and intervention the nation has engaged in over the past 100 years are destroying the country and our freedoms from the inside and enriching the establishment at our cost, we are going to be dangled by a string by the war media and its "national socialist" government.

http://mises.org/books/betrayal.pdf

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Mannfm11
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Karl, the Constitution established nothing, but the power of the central government to tax and acquire credit. The main reason they created the Constitution was to acquire credit. The rights in the Constitution weren't given, but recognized. The Declaration of Independence declared the rights and the 9th amendment points out that man has more rights than enumerated in the Constitution. The hardcore Libertarians would prefer to go back to the Article of Confederation.

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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
Checkthisout
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Green
Cary, NC
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Gen, you beat me to it.

Ignorantsavage:

Sales tax isn't theft of property. It is a surcharge to the PURCHASER. The purchaser pays the tax, not the current owner.

The only problem I feel we'd run in to with the Fair Tax is that (as with all government tax & prohibitions), there will be MASSIVE incentive for a black market.

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There are no gun free zones where free men tread.
Lowbeyond
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CO aka West NJ/East CA
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Steelhead23 wrote..
My only objection to Libertarian ideals is the perspective that individuals have no social responsibility, or collective interests.

Define social responsibility and collective interests. What are they ? More often then not that is short hand code for i wish to have the state stick a gun in my neighbors face to make them do X and not Y. Where X is defined as things i personally like and Y is defined as things i do not.

Steelhead23 wrote..
Let's take the meth user case. Sure she is free to ruin her life - I agree. But what if she has kids? Do we suddenly not care about them?

Who is we ? Is it you? Seems not as you used "we" a nice abstract concept that has a wonderful attribute as you can say you care about X, yet you personally do nothing about it as its not _you_ its the abstract _we_.

Nothing is stopping you from gifting property or care to the poor child. In fact there are a bunch of charities in this country that do just that, and a gazillion more for almost every conceivable policy you can think of. Their resources come from people volunteering to gift their property and/or time to an organization for a cause that they believe in - all without someone sticking a gun to their head.

Shocking.

Steelhead23 wrote..
I fully support individual liberty, but I also support publicly funded education, health care, and other safety net programs.

No you don't. You partial list of things that you support require someone to pay for other people's actions - at the point of a gun.

Why should someone _have_to_ pay for someone else's child's education, or medical bills or everything that falls under "safety net programs"?

Steelhead23 wrote..
I honestly wish Libertarians were less doctrinaire about these things. You see, once individual liberty is truly respected, social programs supported by the majority cannot infringe those rights.

Implicit in this statement is _we_. There is nothing preventing you, individually, taking time and/or property to help others. So what is the problem? And since when can the majority infringe on people's rights anyway ?

Jim Crowe laws were supported by the majority in the South. Are you really arguing that the majority can condemn an individual or a group just because the have 50% +1 of votes for policy X?

It seems as if your idea of "social responsibility", or "collective interests" begins and ends at coughing up a check to an entity that has a gun pointed at your head, closing the door, and proclaiming you really really do care.

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Maybe it was a birdy bread-bomber from the future?!
Mdriscolldds
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This "no grey area" argument requires a "no grey area" answer to one question. What is the exact point at which dominion is bestowed on a person? Be careful, the credibility of the entire argument rests on the answer.
Ignorantsavage
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The "Fair Tax" is by far preferable to the current federal tax structure, though primarily due to being completely transparent compared to the horrific abused mess we deal with now. I see the primary value of the "Fair Tax" as being the quickest, most direct way to shrink the size of government by shoving the full cost directly into the face of everyone and thereby raising such an outcry that the sitting politicians will have no choice but to reduce the cost of government immediately.

Checkthisout, no, a tax on the dispensation of property is STILL a tax on property, which is STILL a claim of ownership on a person, which is STILL slavery. The biggest problem with the "Fair Tax" is that it imposes involuntary servitude (slavery again) on those who would provide new goods and/or services to others. In at least one State, a service provider needs have no involvement at all with State *sales* taxes, as a pure service is reflected as not being a sale under State law. As such, service-only providers in such States will be forcibly drafted to serve as federal tax collectors... under threat of having a gun shoved up their nose.
Genesis
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Quote:
This "no grey area" argument requires a "no grey area" answer to one question. What is the exact point at which dominion is bestowed on a person? Be careful, the credibility of the entire argument rests on the answer.

No it doesn't, and if you're not careful your next post will be your last here.

I can't determine that point with certainty. Neither can you. If you assert you can and can't prove it without violating the Establishment clause your next post is your last. Ever.

Responsive to the request, however, I note that we have guidance both in The Constitution and the 18th Amendment, both of which set an outside boundary of viability, at which point involuntary servitude no longer is necessary for survival. Those who wish set the boundary earlier may not resort to Establishment, and further must not violate the 18th Amendment nor any of the other Constitutional principles; if you argue from Establishment, in my opinion, given that this is NOT the focus of this ticker (there is one that did focus on it) your post will be bilged and so will your account.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?

Genesis
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Ignorant, no. The States have the OPTION but not the OBLIGATION to serve as collectors (they're bribed, incidentally, so I suspect most will be happy to do so.)

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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