Troy: How To Be Voted Out Of Office in [Market-Ticker]

Posted 2012-01-07 12:27
by Karl Denninger
in States

Troy: How To Be Voted Out Of Office

They're at it again!

Remember this article from the third -- just a few days ago?

Well, "No" means no. When it's sex anyway. When it's various other forms of behavior. But..... when it's robbery of the citizens for the benefit of certain corporate interests, committed and put forward by government, well then "no" means we'll try to sneak in a second vote when nobody's paying attention so we can claim we said "no" but really say "yes", and you, the fine citizens, get violated once again.

This hit my mailbox this morning -- to be shared with you.

If you live in Troy, show up at the meeting and make clear that a "Yea" vote will be prosecuted in the next set of elections as a resignation of the Councilmember's seat -- that you will run against any "Yea" vote, will campaign against them, and will expel this vermin from your town.

Dear Troy friends
The Transit Center is on the agenda again for Jan 9th, and this time they seem to have lowered it to a price that only Wade Fleming seems to be happy with.   But who knows in this agreement what was left out and will come back later for us to pay for i.e. landscaping etc. There still is no mention of paying for road widening or maintenance costs with our federal tax dollars, rather than our city tax dollars. These things always seem to come back and haunt us. Below is the resolution from the agenda.

  Email wade.fleming@troymi.gov with your opinion on the issue. I think putting your opinion in the subject line is a good idea   Also your presence and opinion at the microphone is needed on Monday at 7:30pm.

(As you know a Magna employee was not happy with the last vote, but do not fear- Magna headquarters, the beneficiary of our tax abatements has issued a press release saying that they are not going to bad mouth Troy to other businesses or remove their businesses from Troy. It is attached.)

Here is an article that relates to our issue sent by a fellow Troy citizen:
High-speed rail is a fast track to government waste Washington Post, Monday, February 14, 2011
Robert Samuelson writes a weekly economics column that usually runs in The Post on Mondays. He was a columnist for Newsweek magazine from 1984 to 2011. He began his journalism career as a reporter on The Post business desk, from 1969 to 1973. He was an economics reporter and columnist for National Journal magazine from 1976 to 1984
"High-speed rail would definitely be big. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood has estimated the administration's ultimate goal - bringing high-speed rail to 80 percent of the population - could cost $500 billion over 25 years. For this stupendous sum, there would be scant public benefits. Precisely the opposite. Rail subsidies would threaten funding for more pressing public needs: schools, police, defense.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/13/AR2011021302203.html
Email to:    wade.fleming@troymi.gov
Here is the resolution to be voted on Monday.
A resolution on the Transit Center again, on the agenda for the Monday, January 9th, City Council Meeting:

WHEREAS, A 2.41 acre site was deeded to the City of Troy as part of a Consent Judgment, with the condition that it be developed as a transit facility.
WHEREAS, The City of Troy received a $8,485,212 federal grant for the final design and construction of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility through the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) High-Speed Intercity Passenger Rail (HSIPR) Program, Federal Rail Administration (FRA), as secured through a TIGER grant; and
WHEREAS, The facility will be served by AMTRAK and the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation (SMART), which will utilize the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility as a central hub for their bus network; and
WHEREAS, The Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility complements transit oriented initiatives throughout southeast Michigan, including the Detroit Region Aerotropolis project; and
WHEREAS, the purpose of the project is to benefit intercity passenger rail service, and the City is committed to helping achieve, to the extent to which it is capable, the anticipated project benefits; and
WHEREAS, the highest rated bidder, Hubbell, Roth & Clark (HRC), Inc. of Pontiac, MI was selected using a Qualifications Based Selection process; a required process as a condition of the grant; and
WHEREAS, on December 19, 2011 City Council took no affirmative action on a proposed MDOT sub-contract between the City of Troy and HRC to provide architectural and engineering services for the final design of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility; and
WHEREAS, based on express statements made by City Council members at the December 19, 2011 City Council meeting, there was an indication that there may be support for the transit center project if there were cost reductions; and
WHEREAS, HRC volunteered to review the project, at no cost, to see if reductions could be made to the project that would meet the requirements of the federal grant and comply with federal, state and local requirements; and
WHEREAS, Councilman Wade Fleming and Troy Chamber of Commerce representative John Tagle met with Mark Miller, Director of Economic and Community Development on December 22, 2011, to request permission to meet with HRC to obtain some clarification as to the costs associated with rail projects; and
WHEREAS, on December 23, 2011, HRC hosted a meeting to explain some of the required costs of a rail project, and to discuss possible cost reduction ideas, which was attended by Troy City Council members Wade Fleming and Dane Slater, as well as architect/Troy Chamber of Commerce Representative/ Planning Commission member John Tagle and architect/Planning Commission member Tom Strat and Mark Miller, Director of Economic & Community Development; and
WHEREAS, subsequent to this meeting, HRC prepared a revised cost proposal that modified the scope of the project to be at an estimated cost of $6,272,500, excluding contingency; and
AND WHEREAS, the City wishes to construct a Troy Multi-Modal Transit Center for a total cost not to exceed $6,272,500 which includes contingencies, and will still meet State and Federal requirements, and not jeopardize the functionality of the project,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, That Troy City Council hereby AWARDS the MDOT sub-contract between the City of Troy and HRC to provide architectural and engineering services for the final design of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility at an estimated cost not to exceed $648,750,
THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the total estimated cost of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Center shall not exceed $6,272,500,
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the award is contingent upon consultants’ submission of properly executed proposal and contract documents, including agreements, insurance certificates and all other specified requirements.
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, The Mayor and City Clerk are authorized to execute the agreements once in acceptable form as approved by the Michigan Department of Transportation.

Note the underlined: The "estimated" cost -- capital cost only -- is over $6 million. There is no penalty for exceeding estimates (and it will), there is no "hard stop" at the quoted price, nobody will go to jail if they waste $6 million of your money and the project is not complete and there is no bar against an unlimited amount of tax money being spent in the future both to complete what will almost-assuredly turn into a boondoggle and require millions in continual and permanent expenditure by the City.

Troy is one of the wealthier areas in the Detroit Metro area with a median family income of roughly $80,000. Less than two percent of the population of the city lives below the poverty line. It has a population of approximately 81,000 people, meaning that this project's "estimated costs" are about $75 per person, or roughly $300 for a family of four -- a cost that will come back to you in the form of increased taxes, and this is before overruns (which I'm willing to bet will at least double the price) -- for something that will have zero benefit to Troy residents.

How many Troy residents don't have a car to get where they want to go? None! How many will use this mass-transit system to get where they want to go instead of driving their car? None! Where is this thing going to go that the residents of Troy would want to travel to? Pontiac? Are you kidding me?

This project will bring no value to the city of Troy at all. What it will bring is massive cost overruns and tax increases, and if it is ever completed the people of the City of Troy will almost-certainly not use it, since it will go nowhere they need to travel in their daily lives!

It will thus be a massive and outrageously-expensive white elephant -- a "make work" project that will bring negative economic value to the city and it's residents.

It was properly voted down previously and this cat-and-mouse game of "let's vote again!" needs to be met with a strong showing by the people of Troy who stand and say in a loud, united voice: Cut that crap out or lose your job!

Discussion below (registration required to post)

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User Info	Troy: How To Be Voted Out Of Office in forum [Market-Ticker]
Bagbalm Posts: 4253 Incept: 2009-03-19 Just North of Detroit	Put the six million in a fund for low income people to buy a car. Then they can go anywhere they want. And there are a lot more places to go with better jobs than Pontiac. 2012-01-07 13:22:31 Permalink
Mortgageguymn Posts: 1562 Incept: 2009-03-09 North Coast	http://detroit.craigslist.org/cta/ 2012-01-07 13:24:52 Permalink
Rjazz117 Posts: 17785 Incept: 2007-09-11	There aren't any low income people in Troy without cars, unless they're teens/twenties living with their parents. ---------- To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson 2012-01-07 13:42:47 Permalink
Mayorviolet Posts: 67 Incept: 2010-09-16 Philadelphia, PA Banned	The adjacent village of Royal Oak has already made overtures about having the fed money re-allocated so that they can build a new transit center. Most of the ridership isn't to Pontiac; the vast majority of users go to Chicago. Whether on the Wolverine Service of the Blue Water Route, Pontiac is merely one stop among many. The idea is to run trains at 110 mph between Detroit (well, Dearborn) and Chicago (or at least as far as the Illinois/Indiana border). Ridership figures and revenues have increased dramatically since the western leg of this service was upgraded a few years ago. Port Huron station does so much weekend business to Chicago that the parking lots can't accommodate the vehicles. In fact, PH has a comprehensive city plan in place that will bring hundreds of new jobs to the waterfront - and they have applied for money (in competition with Royal Oak) to relocate the current station from its current locale to the waterfront. As to maintenance, capital improvements, etc., both the railroad and bus companies have agreed to fund all operating costs at Troy (or elsewhere). My guess is that it's ultimately built in Troy; if not, the money just goes to another Michigan municipality. 2012-01-07 14:41:05 Permalink
Bagbalm Posts: 4253 Incept: 2009-03-19 Just North of Detroit	I'm sure in a city that size I can find a few folks living with relatives or in an apartment who are having a rough time making it even if they don't meet some arbitrary Federal number. If you are not a local, be aware this is the same city that tried to close down its public library last year to save $1.7 million. That should give you some idea of the mentality of their politicians. I guess it is hard to find much to skim off a public library budget. There IS a train station right now on the Troy/Birmingham border to serve Amtrak. I guess this would shift it to the Troy side of the tracks. Real estate is so expensive there I'd have to look into what happens to the old station and why they don't want to improve the existing station if I wanted to know the whole story. Last modified: 2012-01-07 15:17:54 by bagbalm Reason: to add... 2012-01-07 14:51:07 Permalink
Rjazz117 Posts: 17785 Incept: 2007-09-11	It is extremely unlikely to be used as you envision, Mayorviolet. "Train" is not something we associate much with "transportation" in the Motor City Metro Area. Also, those that are commuting between Chicago and Dearborn can do so now, without costing the City of Troy (or its residents) a dime. Given the choice, most here would opt to fly, as things stand now, and I seriously doubt the presence of a Transit Center in the City of Troy would change that one bit. Hell, Chicago is only a 6 hour drive from here. ---------- To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical. Thomas Jefferson 2012-01-07 14:51:17 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130690 Incept: 2007-06-26	Quote: Most of the ridership isn't to Pontiac; the vast majority of users go to Chicago. Whether on the Wolverine Service of the Blue Water Route, Pontiac is merely one stop among many. What's the ticket price to Chicago? Incidentally, I don't buy that there's "commuting" going on between those two points. That's bull**. And if the people are GOING to Chicago from Troy, then guess what they're taking to Chicago with them? Their wallets!** ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2012-01-07 15:08:51 Permalink
Mayorviolet Posts: 67 Incept: 2010-09-16 Philadelphia, PA Banned	Troy (Birmingham) to Chicago is about $50 each way on weekends. Very, very few commuters on Chi/Det run. I suppose you could make the argument that the hundreds of Canadians that schlepp to Port Huron to catch the train to Chicago for the weekend are spending their hard earned Canadian dollars in the U.S., if not in Troy itself. The biggest problem with THAT is the customs service on the US/Canada bridge at PH. You might be able to walk to Chicago by the time you clear US customs; the lines on the bridge are quite a sight. 2012-01-07 15:22:37 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130690 Incept: 2007-06-26	Quote: Very, very few commuters on Chi/Det run. Yeah, like none. That's a ~6 hour drive which means even if you can run 100mph on a train end-to-end with no stops (ha!) the running time is still in excess of three hours. That's not a commuter train. ---------- I don't care* if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2012-01-07 16:01:50 Permalink
Mayorviolet Posts: 67 Incept: 2010-09-16 Philadelphia, PA Banned	Three hours?! They'd sell their mamas to Sudanese slave traders for three hours; at best, even at 110, it's over four hours to Chicago. Once you get on freight controlled rail at Porter, Indiana, you can kiss 110 goodbye. CSX and Norfolk Southern aren't moving freight onto a siding to allow a passenger train to pass. 2012-01-07 16:09:51 Permalink
Genesis Posts: 130690 Incept: 2007-06-26	The problem with using the train going to Chicago is that it only makes sense under certain limited circumstances. If you're connecting at O'Hare for a flight it can, as you can transfer to the "L" (blue line) and ride directly to the terminal. That's not TERRIBLY bad to accomplish. There's no reason to connect to Midway (you may as well fly out of Detroit Metro.) Does the cost of the train ride and time make it worth it? Probably not -- Metro doesn't have bad connections, and even if the ticket is $100 more out of Metro I bet on balance it's cheaper to fly from there than go to Chicago first. If you're staying in the Chicago "Loop" for some business function it would work. BUT -- beyond The Loop and the areas served by the "L" it's not. If your destination is a business in Hoffman Estates, for example, now what? You're in Chicago and a $50 cab ride out to there -- at best! The Metra only works during business hours and doesn't get close enough to virtually anything either (it really IS a commuter rail intended for people parking at the lot and riding into the Loop on the train and you're riding it the "wrong way.") Suburban bus service blows and city bus service, while decent, is slow as hell. In other words the ridership is all going to be people who want to go shopping in Chicago or who want to do business there *including an overnight stay, which is a nice idea except (1) there's already shopping in Troy, and (2) the City would probably rather you spend the money at the mall THERE rather than pay $5 to park and then go to Chicago and blow the money in THEIR stores! Incidentally, a quick check of airfair from Detroit to Chicago shows prices of about $100 round-trip. That's on a prepurchase basis but it does appear that for $300ish round-trip you can do "walk up and walk on", the flight time is under 2 hours, and that's same-day. While that sounds outrageous price an overnight hotel in the Chicago city core and you'll change your mind QUICKLY about whether you wish to take the train or plane. Not only will you spend more you lose an extra day. ---------- I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me* Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. *Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.* *What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?* 2012-01-07 16:20:57 Permalink
Jstanley01 Posts: 8176 Incept: 2008-07-30 San Antonio, Texas	You mean to tell me that there's still enough slack left, that there are local-yokel politicos in the Detroit area who are still able to pull off a transportation scam-and-skim boondoggle? Golly. Maybe things aren't as bad as we're thinking. ---------- You can't cheat an honest man. ~P.T. Barnum 2012-01-07 16:32:56 Permalink
Jpg Posts: 329 Incept: 2009-03-23 MI	I spent a few months in Milwaukee last Spring/Summer, and heard a lot about a proposed "light-rail" project. Two miles long, at a direct cost of several tens of millions of dollars. Another hundred megabucks for utility relocation. For two miles. Which will also eliminate parking on one side of the street. About which business-owners on that side of the street are none too happy. The only explanation that makes any sense is that the local Train Mafia wants to use this to get their foot in the door, then saying "The reason people don't ride this is that it doesn't go anywhere. We need light-rail to Madison and Green Bay and Oshkosh. Otherwise, it's money down the drain. We can't have that now, can we?". 2012-01-07 18:18:36 Permalink
Goforbroke Posts: 5334 Incept: 2007-11-30 Just call me 'Comrade'	A good summary of the "high speed rail" saga is here ... http://www.heritage.org/research/reports.... WI, like OH, nixed the idea. In Ohio, I forget what the fare would have been (around $20?), but it would have been subsidized with taxpayer money at $18 per ticket. ---------- We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo 2012-01-07 18:48:23 Permalink
Docberg Posts: 161 Incept: 2009-02-20	What sort of "shopping" are people really going to be doing when traveling between Detroit and Chicago? My suspicion is that it would mostly involve recreational pharmacology. 2012-01-07 21:14:58 Permalink
Bagbalm Posts: 4253 Incept: 2009-03-19 Just North of Detroit	In Troy you have Tiffany's and Neiman Marcus, Coach, all kinds of high end jewelers. Check out http://www.thesomersetcollection.com/ Perhaps you might find a few more places for bespoke shoes, suits and formal wear in Chicago but really I bet you can find 99% of it in Troy or neighboring Birmingham/Bloomfield Hills. We're not exactly off in the boondocks. I suspect if Troy is too mundane for someone they would likely fly to New York or Paris as easily as Chicago. 2012-01-07 22:35:17 Permalink
Cputhoff Posts: 8 Incept: 2010-09-18 Michigan	What is the real reason these politicians are obsessed with Rail Projects? There has GOT to be corruption involved because it makes so little sense otherwise. 2012-01-08 16:29:42 Permalink
Azusgm Posts: 2396 Incept: 2010-12-02 East Texas	Right of way for large scale public works projects can involve a lot of front-running by the politically connected. When Loop 610 around Houston went in, the land at one point was selling by the square inch. Those who determine the routes of such projects also have the opportunity to wield economic power and social control, i.e. where people can or cannot live or operate businesses. 2012-01-09 09:57:58 Permalink
Cek260 Posts: 15 Incept: 2008-08-06 Washington D.C.	What's happening is that there are a number of UAW workers that had an option of being laid off or temporarily relocating to another plant- such as in the Chicago / Indy area. At first, many came back frequently (not truly a commuter) as their families were still in MI. However, there was no definition of what temporary actually means and so now many have been doing this a 2-3 years with no sign of when this will end, even though those who were laid off an opted not to be relocated are now back at work. Needless to say the frequency by which these workers come home now has gotten much wider... 2012-01-09 10:49:58 Permalink

Dear Troy friends

Email to: wade.fleming@troymi.gov

Here is the resolution to be voted on Monday.

A resolution on the Transit Center again, on the agenda for the Monday, January 9th, City Council Meeting:

WHEREAS, A 2.41 acre site was deeded to the City of Troy as part of a Consent Judgment, with the condition that it be developed as a transit facility.

WHEREAS, The facility will be served by AMTRAK and the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation (SMART), which will utilize the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility as a central hub for their bus network; and

WHEREAS, The Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility complements transit oriented initiatives throughout southeast Michigan, including the Detroit Region Aerotropolis project; and

WHEREAS, the purpose of the project is to benefit intercity passenger rail service, and the City is committed to helping achieve, to the extent to which it is capable, the anticipated project benefits; and

WHEREAS, the highest rated bidder, Hubbell, Roth & Clark (HRC), Inc. of Pontiac, MI was selected using a Qualifications Based Selection process; a required process as a condition of the grant; and

WHEREAS, on December 19, 2011 City Council took no affirmative action on a proposed MDOT sub-contract between the City of Troy and HRC to provide architectural and engineering services for the final design of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility; and

WHEREAS, based on express statements made by City Council members at the December 19, 2011 City Council meeting, there was an indication that there may be support for the transit center project if there were cost reductions; and

WHEREAS, HRC volunteered to review the project, at no cost, to see if reductions could be made to the project that would meet the requirements of the federal grant and comply with federal, state and local requirements; and

WHEREAS, Councilman Wade Fleming and Troy Chamber of Commerce representative John Tagle met with Mark Miller, Director of Economic and Community Development on December 22, 2011, to request permission to meet with HRC to obtain some clarification as to the costs associated with rail projects; and

WHEREAS, subsequent to this meeting, HRC prepared a revised cost proposal that modified the scope of the project to be at an estimated cost of $6,272,500, excluding contingency; and

AND WHEREAS, the City wishes to construct a Troy Multi-Modal Transit Center for a total cost not to exceed $6,272,500 which includes contingencies, and will still meet State and Federal requirements, and not jeopardize the functionality of the project,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, That Troy City Council hereby AWARDS the MDOT sub-contract between the City of Troy and HRC to provide architectural and engineering services for the final design of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility at an estimated cost not to exceed $648,750,

THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the total estimated cost of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Center shall not exceed $6,272,500,

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the award is contingent upon consultants’ submission of properly executed proposal and contract documents, including agreements, insurance certificates and all other specified requirements.

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, The Mayor and City Clerk are authorized to execute the agreements once in acceptable form as approved by the Michigan Department of Transportation.

Quote:

Quote:

Dear Troy friends

Email to: wade.fleming@troymi.gov

Here is the resolution to be voted on Monday.

A resolution on the Transit Center again, on the agenda for the Monday, January 9th, City Council Meeting:WHEREAS, A 2.41 acre site was deeded to the City of Troy as part of a Consent Judgment, with the condition that it be developed as a transit facility.

WHEREAS, The facility will be served by AMTRAK and the Suburban Mobility Authority for Regional Transportation (SMART), which will utilize the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility as a central hub for their bus network; and

WHEREAS, The Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility complements transit oriented initiatives throughout southeast Michigan, including the Detroit Region Aerotropolis project; and

WHEREAS, the purpose of the project is to benefit intercity passenger rail service, and the City is committed to helping achieve, to the extent to which it is capable, the anticipated project benefits; and

WHEREAS, the highest rated bidder, Hubbell, Roth & Clark (HRC), Inc. of Pontiac, MI was selected using a Qualifications Based Selection process; a required process as a condition of the grant; and

WHEREAS, on December 19, 2011 City Council took no affirmative action on a proposed MDOT sub-contract between the City of Troy and HRC to provide architectural and engineering services for the final design of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility; and

WHEREAS, based on express statements made by City Council members at the December 19, 2011 City Council meeting, there was an indication that there may be support for the transit center project if there were cost reductions; and

WHEREAS, HRC volunteered to review the project, at no cost, to see if reductions could be made to the project that would meet the requirements of the federal grant and comply with federal, state and local requirements; and

WHEREAS, Councilman Wade Fleming and Troy Chamber of Commerce representative John Tagle met with Mark Miller, Director of Economic and Community Development on December 22, 2011, to request permission to meet with HRC to obtain some clarification as to the costs associated with rail projects; and

WHEREAS, subsequent to this meeting, HRC prepared a revised cost proposal that modified the scope of the project to be at an estimated cost of $6,272,500, excluding contingency; and

AND WHEREAS, the City wishes to construct a Troy Multi-Modal Transit Center for a total cost not to exceed $6,272,500 which includes contingencies, and will still meet State and Federal requirements, and not jeopardize the functionality of the project,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, That Troy City Council hereby AWARDS the MDOT sub-contract between the City of Troy and HRC to provide architectural and engineering services for the final design of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Facility at an estimated cost not to exceed $648,750,

THEREFORE BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the total estimated cost of the Troy Multi-Modal Transit Center shall not exceed $6,272,500,

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, That the award is contingent upon consultants’ submission of properly executed proposal and contract documents, including agreements, insurance certificates and all other specified requirements.

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED, The Mayor and City Clerk are authorized to execute the agreements once in acceptable form as approved by the Michigan Department of Transportation.

Quote:

Quote:

A resolution on the Transit Center again, on the agenda for the Monday, January 9th, City Council Meeting:

WHEREAS, A 2.41 acre site was deeded to the City of Troy as part of a Consent Judgment, with the condition that it be developed as a transit facility.