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| The Answer: Erect The Finger in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Randy123
Posts: 5776
Incept: 2008-09-24
Earth
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Well said
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China is the Enemy. Wake Up.
New Normal. Same As The Old Awful.
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Corn1945
Posts: 4167
Incept: 2009-04-30
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Does the same thing apply to US Treasury bonds...
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Andysvw
Posts: 1734
Incept: 2010-06-26
Tujunga Ca
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Gen you are on a roll today.
The IMF fell into the debt trap and now they want to drag the entire world in with them. If they can we will be calling them Gods in just a few generations.
I would imagine people will start falling down stairs pretty soon.
If we are lucky.
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Bubbazanetti
Posts: 543
Incept: 2007-08-23
NOLA
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I have been holding back, but we are filing Chapter 7 this feb.
Just took the phone call from American Express and told them the bad news.
It sucks because I just made a $740 payment last month. I wish I had not.
We are broke. Period.
We blew through our savings paying the interest on loans.
We went broke, slowly at first. Then suddenly.
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1227
Incept: 2011-04-14
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
"You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns
The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Quick
Posts: 112
Incept: 2008-03-08
southeast
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"We went broke, slowly at first. Then suddenly"
It seems that is what is happening in the US. I fear we are close to "then suddenly"
in the US
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Swingtrader
Posts: 9108
Incept: 2007-08-12
United Oligarchic Goldman Sachs States of America
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bubba wrote..I have been holding back, but we are filing Chapter 7 this feb Never an easy thing, hate you went broke bubba. Your situation will change, given time. warm regards
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Swing said "Well, it is collapsing as we watch.This is what it looks like." Australian federal judge Jayne Jagot, doing what US judges need to do!
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Psquared
Posts: 1876
Incept: 2008-10-11
SE USA
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Capitalism does not allow losses any longer - at least not if you are far enough up the food chain to be systemically important.
Somewhere along the line TPTB (or someone else) made the decision that free markets don't fail ... or even sputter, but are supposed to run on indefinitely or perpetually growing and inflating. I would say it was Greenspan, but I think it happened before him. We have been forever trying to avoid a repeat of the 70s stagflation, but guess what. We have it anyway and it is just a precursor to deinflation. (I made that up but it is what we have had for the past 3 years. Inflation in commodities and deflation in everything else like real estate.)
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"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other." ~ John Adams
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Landshark
Posts: 11258
Incept: 2008-02-07
The Wild West
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Quote:systemically important.
Somewhere along the line TPTB (or
someone else) made the decision
that free markets don't fail ... or
even sputter, but are supposed to
run on indefinitely or perpetually
growing and inflating. This is a free market?
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Success in life is a matter not so much of talent and opportunity as of concentration and perseverance.
– C. W. Wendte
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O.jeff
Posts: 86
Incept: 2011-03-24
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"Does the same thing apply to US Treasury bonds..."
What do you say Karl?
How "hard" should a country be forced to work to pay off their debt? Who decides how hard is "hard enough?" When the same situation happens here, I'd assume we would restore taxation to the 95th percentile of the last 50 years (as a % of GDP). I'd assume we'd cut spending to the bone (by 10% of GDP or more, etc). We'd increase the Medicare premium from ~$100 per month to $300 a month, etc. Cut retiree benefits, etc.
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Genesis
Posts: 130717
Incept: 2007-06-26
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I say that if you can pass the Constitutional Amendment required to do it, then yes.
Lending someone money unsecured is dangerous. The price of doing it (the interest rate demanded) should reflect that. If it doesn't it's not the BORROWER's fault.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8849
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Easier to amend the Constitution than pay.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Kypackrat
Posts: 63
Incept: 2010-12-12
Banned
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Somewhere along the line TPTB (or someone else) made the decision that free markets don't fail ... or even sputter, but are supposed to run on indefinitely or perpetually growing and inflating. I would say it was Greenspan, but I think it happened before him.
I blame the Progressives of the late 1800s. Free Silver was an attempt to inflate away the pain of the grinding depression that destroyed debtors throughout the post-Civil War period. All the Federal Reserve was was the "Free Silver" people abandoning the silver metal entirely, and moving straight to ink.
Once you have perpetual inflation, the concept of perpetual profits is just a skip away.
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Jbear
Posts: 7
Incept: 2010-09-25
Casper Wyoming
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Sorry to be the class dunce but I keep wondering why the standard emphasis is placed on "pension funds" and others. Sort of makes it sound like folks in Ireland and others could think they are trying to save their own? I assume that the contracts are convoluted and I would not even know where to begin to track them down. It would be amusing to know what amounts would be lost to local pensions that the state would eventually be responsible for (to some extent) and how much in French, German, or heavens forbid English pensions they are bailing out?
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Genesis
Posts: 130717
Incept: 2007-06-26
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I'm sure that's exactly what they are being sold, and some of it's even true.
It's immaterial however in that you're simply taking money from one hand and putting into the other.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Ghopper
Posts: 2314
Incept: 2011-06-11
Staten Island, NY
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This year each Irish house hold will have to pay 100 euros for a new tax.
Next year it will range from 188 to 400 (or more) depending on size and location of home.
This one hits home and is starting to get the people mad. Not nearly mad enough.
It was 90 year ago that Ireland still lived under British rule that had lasted hundreds of years. It is a terrible thing to hand over hard fought freedom.
But then we are doing the same thing here in the US.
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Kylafoon
Posts: 2458
Incept: 2009-02-05
Zombie Portal Lookout
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The last great defiant act....
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"...But whenever we see things done wildly, but taken tamely, then the State is growing insane..." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton 1910
"I found a flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works." - Alan Greenspan, October 2008
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Widgeon
Posts: 13481
Incept: 2007-08-30
Region formerly known as the United States
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Quote:... if the government refused then the people should give the finger to the government, ejecting and replacing it. Trying to "be fair" to the Irish ... they DID replace the bankster friendly gov't with one that SAID they would resist and perhaps even follow the Iceland "model." However, within 24 hours of being elected, they flipped 180 degrees. Of course, at that point the Irish could have risen up ... sort of like us here w/ Owebama and his failure to keep even a single "campaign promise" of note. |
Andyc
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-24
Banned
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Does anyone know when the latest figures for say Greek debt are released?
We have heard that bondholders "agreed" to take a 50% haircut on that debt and the figure at the time was around 400 billion when the new numbers come out will the new total be 200 billion?
How come I'm guessing no?
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Nma
Posts: 121
Incept: 2010-03-16
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Sorry to hear that bubba. We are on the verge as well. A negative savings rate is obviously unsustainable and we've been at it for over a year now.
Anything you would've done differently in retrospect?
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Mrbill
Posts: 7846
Incept: 2008-10-19
North Carolina
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When lending unsecured by assets, the only leverage that lender has is the need for the borrower to keep borrowing.
If any country (Ireland, Greece, US) decides to balance their budget, flipping the double-bird is a perfectly acceptable next step.
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Corn1945
Posts: 4167
Incept: 2009-04-30
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Laws are meaningless in this day and age. So new Constitutional amendment is necessary.
You have to be totally brain-dead to lend the US government money. You deserve to lose your money if you trusted it with us.
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Psquared
Posts: 1876
Incept: 2008-10-11
SE USA
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@Landshark - that is what they call it, but we all know they are not free. They haven't been since before the first child labor law was enacted. They are less free than they were 3 years ago and will be even less free in 3 years regardless of who is elected president.
I would say this though; while I don't know how much regulation is ideal, markets do require some government supervision/regulation and can still be defined as free markets.
I suppose it is a relative term.
We should have a frank, open and transparent conversation about how much and what kind of regulation we want. Right now we get what the mega-corps and banks want not what is best for the country.
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"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other." ~ John Adams
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End_the_bubbles
Posts: 9519
Incept: 2009-03-25
The New 3rd World
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Quote:Does the same thing apply to US Treasury bonds...
It most certainly will apply there...... I've said all along DEFAULT would be the the ultimate "outcome" for most debts.......
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In the long run even the most despotic governments with all their brutality and cruelty are no match for ideas. Eventually the ideology that has won the support of the majority will prevail and cut the ground from under the tyrant's feet and rise in rebellion to overthrow their masters.
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