Goebbels (er, Hersman) Appears At The NTSB
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2011-12-13 23:01
by Karl Denninger
in Corruption
Ignore this thread
Goebbels (er, Hersman) Appears At The NTSB
 

Here 'ya go folks, that previous Ticker ought to start striking home....

WASHINGTON – States should ban all driver use of cellphones and other portable electronic devices, except in emergencies, the National Transportation Board said Tuesday.

.....

The board made the recommendation in connection with a deadly highway pileup in Missouri last year. The board said the initial collision in the accident near Gray Summit, Mo., was caused by the inattention of a 19 year-old-pickup driver who sent or received 11 texts in the 11 minutes immediately before the crash.

Ok, so the pickup driver (who was killed) may have been paying attention to his phone instead of the road, and hit a tractor trailer that had slowed down for construction.  That would be a nice narrative and certainly cause for concern if it were true. 

Let's read carefully and see if it is:

Driver distraction wasn't the only significant safety problem uncovered by NTSB's investigation of the Missouri accident. Investigators said they believe the pickup driver was suffering from fatigue that may have eroded his judgment at the time of the accident. He had an average of about five and a half hours of sleep a night in the days leading up to the accident and had had fewer than five hours of sleep the night before the accident, they said.

So they're not actually sure if he was paying attention to the phone at the time of the incident.  He had engaged in receiving and/or sending (heh wait a second... we'll deal with that below) texts in the minutes leading up to the wreck, but they admit:

It's not possible to know from cellphone records if the driver was typing, reaching for the phone or reading a text at the time of the crash, but it's clear he was manually, cognitively and visually distracted, she (Deborah Hersman) said.

Actually, Ms. Hersman just admitted she doesn't know exactly why the teen plowed into the tractor.  While the article says that 11 texts were either sent or received in the 11 minutes prior to the crash the direction of the messages is not disclosed nor are their timestamps.  If I send you 11 texts and your phone is in your pocket this pattern would be found in the telco records, but that in no way, without knowing more, evidences whether you pulled and read the texts or whether you sent any of them.  What if all of them were sent 10 minutes before he wrecked?  Ah grasshopper, perhaps the phone was in his pocket and he wasn't manipulating it at all!  Why doesn't the NTSB disclose the specifics?  Is it because what the data actually shows doesn't fit their narrative?

Further Deborah assumes the driver was reading or sending the messages as proximately involved in the crash but being very tired the driver could have nodded off!  That will quite-reliably lead you to ram the guy in front of you, incidentally.  Ever driven while tired?  I have.  If you find yourself in that situation pull off the damn road at the nearest safe place and take a nap!  The life you save is very likely to be your own (and anyone else in the vehicle with you.)

Let's continue onward here, because this story is about to get very interesting.

Let's first look at the "justification" for the newly-pontificated NTSB position:

At any given moment last year on America's streets and highways, nearly 1 in every 100 car drivers was texting, emailing, surfing the Web or otherwise using a handheld electronic device, the safety administration said. And those activities spiked 50 percent over the previous year.

Sounds bad, right?  Keep reading.

The agency takes an annual snapshot of drivers' behavior behind the wheel by staking out intersections to count people using cellphones and other devices, as well as other distracting behavior.

Now wait a minute.  Staking out intersections eh?  Were the drivers reading a text or something else on their screen doing so while safely stopped at a red light in traffic?  How else could the "stake outs" see with sufficient clarity (time, ability to discern if someone has said device in their hand, is using it, etc) unless the car is stoppedIsn't it funny how the "surveillance" claims to be taken in a place and through a form and fashion that would pretty much mandate that the person being looked at was not moving at the time?  Further, how about the guy (like me) who has said phone in a holder and it's running a navigation program speaking directions (e.g. "turn right in 200 yards")?  Do I count as an "offender" in this case because my screen is lit?  It sounds like from the above they count someone with a Garmin sitting on the dash as "distracted."  What if my bluetooth earpiece is in my ear (easily visible) but I'm not actually talking to anyone?  How do you know? And by the way, if I'm stopped at a red light exactly what's dangerous about looking at a text that was received some time prior when I heard the phone "bing"?  Exactly what am I going to strike while stopped at a traffic signal?  If I'm using my bluetooth earpiece or speakerphone to make or receive a phone call (stopped at a light or not) how does that conversation differ from one with the person in the passenger seat of the car?  Are we going to be told that all passenger seating positions must be walled off from the driver -- and that no radio or navigation assistance may be fitted in the vehicle either?

Why do I smell intentional fraud upon the public in this so-called "study"? 

Here's why -- back to the accident details:

The pickup, traveling at 55 mph, collided into the back of a tractor truck that had slowed for highway construction. The pickup was rear-ended by a school bus that overrode the smaller vehicle. A second school bus rammed into the back of the first bus.

So let me guess -- the school bus drivers were using their cellphones too, right?  That would explain why both bus drivers didn't notice that the truck in front had slowed down and they both got involved in a multi-vehicle pile-up.  It would also provide reasonable justification for the NTSB position.

There's only one problem - that's not what happened, and now we get to the meat of the NTSB scam and fraud upon the public by our so-called "civil servants":

Investigators also found significant problems with the brakes of both school buses involved in the accident. A third school bus sent to a hospital after the accident to pick up students crashed in the hospital parking lot when that bus' brakes failed.

Wait a second!

Our intrepid 19 year old dies because he's stupid.  Whether that was due to driving while tired or texting we will never know for sure, but it doesn't matter.  Murphy is a bastard and the kid's ticket got punched.

However, by taking a material amount of the impact himself he may have actually saved lives as it appears both of the school buses behind him had non-working brakes!  And the presence or absence of a cellphone by the 19 year old, no matter whether it was in his hand or pocket, has nothing to do with that!

First rule of driving: You're always responsible for your own situational awareness so that you can either stop or evade irrespective of what the vehicle in front of you does (or doesn't) do. 

If you hit someone from behind it is almost always legally your fault as you're required to maintain that aforementioned situational awareness.

Now remember folks that a School Bus has a much higher driving position and thus higher sight line than a pickup truck.  As such the driver of the School Bus had to have been able to see the tractor rig slow in front of him as he could see over the pickup and in any event the tractor is ~10+ feet tall

In short it is rather obvious that the school bus hit the pileup of the tractor and pickup not because the pickup struck the tractor but because the school bus driver was either not paying attention or was unable to stop, and the second bus hit him because the second bus could not stop eitherAnd why couldn't they stop? 

The NTSB says both buses involved in the collision had significant problems with their brakes!

Worse, a third bus from the same school district sent to pick up the students after the wreck crashed in the hospital parking lot when its brakes failed too!

What the hell did this accident and all the kids that got hurt, other than the 19 year old in the pickup, have to do with texting on a cellphone?

NOTHING!

Had the 19 year old not been distracted (or half-asleep, which seems at least as likely) he almost-certainly would have slowed and been hit from behind by the first and second bus anyway.

This is a massive scam folks.

You have a kid here who's dead and can't defend himself against the libel that he was somehow responsible for the injuries other than his own.  Whether he was distracted or fell asleep behind the wheel he paid for his offense with his life.  We don't even know with any reasonable degree of certainty that he was actually looking at his phone in the first place. You can bet, incidentally, that if the NTSB had proof that he had been sending those messages or that he was actually reading them at the time of the wreck they would have said so.

What's obvious, however, by the NTSB's own statement, is that the injuries would have ended with the teen driver of the pickup but for not one but two separate school buses operating on the roads without properly-working brakes and/or attentive drivers and the third one sent to the hospital to retrieve the victims had defective brakes as well.  The risk of further injury to the kids was avoided only due to the bare luck of that third bus crashing in the hospital parking lot first!

So what do we have here?  Slander of this kid's good name without evidence.  An attempted deflection of the actual cause of the injuries to the children on the buses through the desperate search for something, anything to blame those injuries on that doesn't rest upon three poorly-maintained school buses without properly-working brakes that were being operated on the public highways -- something the NTSB and DOT is directly responsible for.  And finally, in the best of Goebbels tradition by our jackbooted Nazi Government we have an outrageous overreach and attempt to advocate new legislation for the purpose of harassing motorists who are doing nothing wrong based on falsified evidence, slander and lies.

To the NTSB and the rest of the Goebbels douche-nozzle jackasses who I just caught in this series of intentional, malicious acts and the media outlets that ran their tripe without a hint of skeptical inquiry and pushback: F%$k you all.

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User Info Goebbels (er, Hersman) Appears At The NTSB in forum [Market-Ticker]
Sean
Posts: 1766
Incept: 2009-04-21

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Thanks for detailing this out Karl.
This was the only part I heard about on the noon news today:
Quote:
WASHINGTON – States should ban all driver use of cellphones and other portable electronic devices, except in emergencies, the National Transportation Board said Tuesday.

.....

The board made the recommendation in connection with a deadly highway pileup in Missouri last year. The board said the initial collision in the accident near Gray Summit, Mo., was caused by the inattention of a 19 year-old-pickup driver who sent or received 11 texts in the 11 minutes immediately before the crash.

We are doomed.

I am pulling the trigger on the liquidation of my entire 401k/IRA tomorrow or Thursday!

I would have to wait 21 years until I could get it out without the penalties. We don't have 21 weeks let alone 21 years.

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* I think Ann Barnhardt is more and more right. God help us!
* Progressives / Marxists / Communists are many things, STUPID and IMPATIENT are not two of them.
* A hot civil war is coming.
* And people wonder why I prep!

Tallystick
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For some reason, the ticker discussing refusal of municipalities to budget routine maintenance costs of capital equipment comes to mind.
Phantomace
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Las Vegas, NV, and your screen
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What are the odds that the pickup driver actually DID try to stop, but was driven into the accident by the school bus behind him in the first place?
Wouldn't surprise me one damn bit if that were the actual case. After all, dead men tell no tales.
Besides, it's easier for the goobermint to blame a civilian and foist new regs on everyone than it is to admit the school district may have been at fault here.
Never let a crisis go to waste, right?

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"That was a little trick I call math. Oops, now I'm not emotionally invested..." - Dilbert
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Mortgageguymn
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Amen Karl. I think most people know from personal experience that talking on a cell phone (with or without "handsfree" technology) is about as distracting as talking with someone in the car. No more, no less. Definitely less distracting than eating a sandwich and having mayo fall onto your shirt. They want to ban talking on a phone while in the car, which is simply ridiculous. Texting while driving is much more dangerous, but 1) it doesn't seem like a federal issue and 2) since enforcement would be next to impossible, it'd be just legislating against stupidity, like a law against peeing on a subway 3rd rail. The way to stop texting while driving is through education and making it socially unacceptable - gauche.

This reminds me of the efforts to lower the allowable alcohol limit from .10 to .08. If there's good evidence for doing it, fine, but when they dropped it to .08 here in MN it was after many emotional testimonials from witnesses whose family members had been killed by drunk drivers with blood alcohol levels over .20, which were utterly beside the point.
Bagbalm
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No call to inspect the brakes on the rest of the buses...
Asimov
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Oh holy christ. What a cluster****.

They're just trying to cover up poor school bus maintenance by blaming the kid.

Whoever let those buses out with bad brakes needs to be prosecuted.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
Genesis
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DUI is bull**** until and unless you wreck.

THEN it should be a SERIOUS aggravating circumstance. But exactly as serious as driving while hopped up on cough syrup or with no sleep, if the same degree of injury (or death) is caused. The point here is that in all three cases you were grossly negligent getting behind the wheel -- the active ingredient used in the negligence is immaterial.

In this particular case the kids who were injured had exactly nothing to do with texting or use of a cellphone at all. The reason they got hurt is that they were on a bus with no ****ing brakes that couldn't stop when the tractor in front properly and prudently slowed down for the construction. The kid who rammed the tractor was the meat in the sandwich; if he actually was distracted (or fell asleep) that sucks but it has nothing to do with why the kids got hurt.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
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What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Blagden
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I'm sure they made this one up too;

http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story....

Asimov
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Karl: Precisely.

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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity.
If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
Lynford1933
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Reno Nv
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On the evening news there was several other statistics along with the bus story like 400,000 accidents, 30,000 injuries and 3000+ deaths due to inattention. Like Genesis found about the Mo. accident, were most of the others bogus? I don't know but from personal experience some people are lousy drivers and driving one handed with a cell phone in their ear is not as safe as their driving could be. One time I had to wait behind some lady through two stop light changes because she was so interested in her phone. I finally honked and got a 'half peace sign' for my trouble. Nevada just passed a 'no cell phone' law but allows a blue tooth setup which to me seems reasonable as it would be so hard to enforce anyway.
Imustbenutz
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Just think about how much more impact Hersman would have had if the driver of the pickup had a firearm, some pornography and any detectable blood alcohol level.

Saddam has Weapons of Mass Destruction...

I did not have sex with that woman...

No bankers have done anything illegal...

hmmmm, I'm starting to suspect a pattern here....

Genesis
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Blagden: What's that got to do with the point of the story?

I'm not in a charitable mood tonight -- you're done.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?

End_the_bubbles
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Perhaps they should just outlaw all vehicles and phones completely while they are at it.

What a total ****ing joke this so-called "country" has become.

I need more guns!

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In the long run even the most despotic governments with all their brutality and cruelty are no match for ideas. Eventually the ideology that has won the support of the majority will prevail and cut the ground from under the tyrant's feet and rise in rebellion to overthrow their masters.
Fraudster
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Getting closer and closer to that time. And don't think for a second that I wouldn't pack up and leave this country.

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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte

"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
Fedwatcher
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Karl,

I think you are wrong here.

Before cell phones and texting we all got along fine. Using a cell phone while driving is a big distraction. Some people have no problem, but others do. We got along perfectly fine before cell phones and almost all plans have voice mail so you can wait until you are off the road.

A DUI or a cell phone violation which is worse? Well we just don't know.
Uwe
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Why do I think the car industry will back this proposal from the NTSB?

Oh, yeah, built-in navigation and hands-free bluetooth systems are very profitable options for car makers.

-Uwe-

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“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” - John Locke
Gamma
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I've been in plenty of close calls very, very clearly from people distracted by talking on their phones. At that moment. Clearly identifiable, visually, thing held up to their head and their jaw flapping. Enough so that I have trained myself to look for drivers using their cel phones just like I (or anyone else) would have their hackles raised by someone swerving randomly.

It would not trouble me if there was a way to somehow control this behavior, but I don't think there is other than this type of mass bludgeoning. What happens, as usual, is everyones' freedom gets nicked a little by the stupidest example in the gene pool that happens to be found. Frankly, I wish they'd take up pole dancing, but on second thought, Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi pole dancing (or even Darrel Issa pole dancing, for that matter) isn't an image I'm imagining as something easily washed out of my brain, once seen.

Very little*****es me off more than a handful of unelected bureaucrats doing something "for the children" that is so obviously what I call an "importance grab". The reasoning behind the secondary and tertiary deaths/injuries in this is so shoddy as to be laughable, but you challenge anything done "for the children" and you're branded as a nutball. No, they are liars, as you've painstakingly pointed out, Karl. Conflating all these results with and upon such a spurious cause is offensive. It gives our generally incompetent representatives lots of incontrovertible busy work to do "look at me, I'm working to protect the children, wheeeee!"


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This stuff we're going through, this is nothing compared to the Middle Ages.
They told me if I voted for John McCain, an idiot would be a heartbeat away from the presidency. Sure enough...
Abn0rmal
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Car accidents are rare when you adjust for distance traveled. In the US there is 1 auto accident for every 500,000 vehicle miles and 1 fatality for 80 million vehicle miles in spite of the fact that a lot of drivers are distracted to some extent.
Smacktle
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They are gonna get you Karl for making too much sense!

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The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier.
- George Bernard Shaw
Mekantor
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This guy was reaching for a pen and crashed, maybe if he had used a phone instead there wouldn't be a problem. Of course since hes a cop, he can have a full computer setup and still be considered a safe driver, yikes!

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/up-....
Ignorantsavage
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united States
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Quote:
Getting closer and closer to that time. And don't think for a second that I wouldn't pack up and leave this country
Just where are you planning on going?

Also, for the idiots lacking reading comprehension: Karl wrote about FRAUD, where the material gains were the support of idiots who apparently don't know how to read.

As for DUI laws and other similar atrocities, those in favor of so-called "common sense" laws automatically lose the argument so long as a person can be charged whith Driving Under the Influence while sleeping in a parked car. http://www.myduiattorney.org/dui-tips/sl....

Crzymorse
Posts: 1195
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Clearly, you need to ban 19yr old men from driving they are dangerous. This has nothing to do with cell phones but teen driving. The NTSB could have got a twofer out of this one.

BTW- maybe if the county and state weren't spending so much money on entitlements like pensions and healthcare for retired teachers they could fix the brakes on the buses...

Rocktologist
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Tater City
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In the original accident report the Missouri Highway Patrol report blamed the school bus drivers.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/metro....

Quote:
Earlier Friday, the Highway Patrol identified Michael D. Crabtree, of Kearneysville, W.Va., as the driver of a 2007 Volvo truck tractor, operating without a trailer, that was the first to be struck in the chain reaction crash in the eastbound lanes of the interstate.

Crabtree was stopped in traffic that had backed up from a construction zone about one mile to the east, according to the Highway Patrol.

Schatz, driving a 2007 GMC Sierra pickup, apparently didn't notice that Crabtree's truck had stopped and hit it from behind.

Then a school bus driven by Katherine P. Shackelford, 75, of St. James, hit the rear end of Schatz's truck, pushing it on top of the tractor, police said.

Shackelford told investigators she had moved to the left to avoid a vehicle stopped on the right side of the road. She said she checked her mirrors and was not able to stop in time. A Highway Patrol report said Shackelford was "inattentive." Missouri Highway Patrol Cpl. Jeff Wilson said driver inattention can involve someone taking his or her eyes off the road.

A second bus, also from the St. James School District and driven by Kelly M. McEnnis-Mullenix, 38, hit the rear of the first school bus. The impact pushed the first bus on top of the other two vehicles, police said. In its report, the Highway Patrol said McEnnis-Mullenix was following the first bus too closely.

Wilson said that determination was based on physical evidence at the scene and the final position of the vehicles.

The state said both buses were owned and operated by Copeland Bus Service LLC of St. James and were leased to the St. James School District.


First School Bus Driver was Seventy-Five!
Second School Bus hit with such force that it pushed the other school bus OVER the kids truck and onto the cab of the semi tractor.

Yeah, let's ban cell phones. That'll fix the problem.

This link has pic of accident aftermath:
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-....

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SRS took my money...and my virginity.

Reason: add pic link
Clawback
Posts: 85
Incept: 2009-11-08

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So a 75-year old bus driver caused the accident? From the looks of the photo, it would certainly appear possible, as Phantomace pointed out, that the pickup ended up smashed against the tractor-truck ONLY after the bus crashed into the pickup.
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