ahh well Xkn. Property Ownership is one of the Big Lies the State tells. People love to believe it though. It makes them happy if they purposely deceive themselves to thinking they own something - rather renting from the state.

In fact the last part doesn't even register on most of them. So all is well

I find this ticker a bit close to home. :-D I will be voting for this. The legislature will have to come up with a way to fund the schools if this passes. I home school, I don't get any funding from the state or county. There are jobs here if your willing to work. I'm even working two shifts right now along with my own business. The idea of people having to figure out what government services they are willing to pay for out of current funds would quickly come to a head as they wouldn't be able to rely on property taxes.

Regarding weather, it is warm right now compared to the norm and barely a dusting of snow. I am thankful for that. :-D

They have money coming out the wazoo. Big whoop. Alaska has low taxes too. The real question is, are they trying to improve the quality of life in North Dakota, or simply saying they don't like paying taxes and are going to rewrite the state constitution during a royalties bonanza. My first thought was "Stupid long term maneuver." My 2nd thought: Afghans don't have taxes either.

So your definition of "improving the quality of life" is to steal money from one person and give it to another?

Berkleyreindeer seems to be ok with being a perpetual serf to the state - subject only to the whims of his betters.

Ah well it takes all kinds

No friggin way!

Michael Hudson will argue this will merely increase prices of land. The money will go to the banks. So the other side of the coin should be, no borrowing for buying land!

Michelj, I agree with that. A good comparison is Texas vs anywhere else. Why did Texas not have a property boom, they have ridiculous high property taxes.

Wouldn't not having to pay property taxes enrich the lives of every North Dakotan. Whether they chose to improve their quality of life individually, by using their newfound availability of funds on personal enrichment, or come together as a community to keep the service levels they have now, such as paying a "school tax" or higher income tax or "heat for the homeless" tax, they could chose so. But it provides the residents of each community with the choice of how they want to live. Government involvement and programs, and their funding, would be decided locally and funded directly out in the open...the way it should be in my opinion.

Genesis wrote-

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So your definition of "improving the quality of life" is to steal money from one person and give it to another?

I don't believe that is what is being argued. I similarly call "shenanigans" on the no property tax issue. Looks great on the surface to abolish property tax, but I believe that it is a function of the revenues being generated from drilling and production. What happens when those revenues fall? Property or VAT or some other tax will come back to make up for the shortfall.

I don't believe this is some great blow for economic justice or libertarian values, just a ploy to get more folks to ND. I can't argue with that desire, but I think assigning a high-minded Randian motive is a mistake.

BTW, I would *love* the opportunity to only pay taxes for truly communal services. Police, Fire, Sewer and water, etc. But we all know that isn't going to happen.

My daughter's school is 94% title 1. That means virtually every child gets free and reduced lunch as well as breakfast before school. What are the chances that those kids parents are paying property taxes?

Oh I think the premise of making taxes entirely transparent and visible to everyone to the maximum extent possible is the best disinfectant to these problems.

Property taxes are EVIL. If you want to levy a tax then do so on sales, where I can see it every time I go to the store - and get*****ed about how much it is.

If it's for good and valid functions, I won't care. If it's not, I'll do my damndest to put a stop to the stupidity.

Karl, they'll just charge you a big up-front sales tax when you buy a house so you pay your property taxes ahead of time.

Gen-

We fully agree on transparency. I guess my problem is that people seem to be jumping on the abolishment bandwagon in the belief that it is driven by sound fiscal policy and an interest in transparency and equitable use of revenues. [bull****]

Easy to be magnanimous when the coffers are overflowing, check back when times are hard and see if those "EVIL" property taxes aren't right back in the mix.

The nice thing about a state Constitutional Amendment is that the legislature CAN'T put them back in the mix. You need the citizens to CONSENT.

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Karl, they'll just charge you a big up-front sales tax when you buy a house so you pay your property taxes ahead of time.

Perhaps, but at least that is a bill that can be paid in full. Property taxes cannot be paid in full, they just come up again year after year.

Oh, you'll get that consent!

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"EVIL" property taxes aren't right back in the mix.

This sounds like they're actually attempting to change the state constitution to keep them from coming back so easily. Grant it, they can just repeal that constitutional change...but at least it's a little more difficult.

Yeah, when the government is collecting an 11.5% severance tax on every drop of oil that comes out of the Bakken, the state government can probably afford to be so "generous" as to let the ad valorem tax go away for a few years.

Property taxes are not the evil that everyone on this board seems to think they are. Having a good road to your house, good schools by your house, good fire and police protection by your house, etc., DIRECTLY impacts the value of your house. See Detroit for an example. The nice school district you're in (that keeps your house value high) has no advantage over surrounding crappy districts if it has to rely on some socialist funding formula from the state government.

Property taxes also help keep people from hoarding property they are not using since there is a cost every year. Property would quickly become concentrated in the hands of only the wealthy without the property tax. Don't believe me? Look at Mineral Rights, Water Rights, and Grazing Rights which are commonly severed from the Surface Estate, but typically not subject to Ad Valorem taxes. Severed Mineral, Water, and Grazing Rights rarely change hands and only but the richest people can buy them in the unlikely event they can find a willing seller, largely because there is no annual carrying cost on those rights. All land would be like that without Ad Valorem taxes.

The problem is not Property Taxes themselves. The problem is that it used to be in most states that it required a 2/3 or 3/4 or some similar supermajority to pass a new property tax. But over the last 30 years or so, special interest groups (Teachers, public employees, team owners) have managed to get state constitutions changed to require only slight supermajorities or simple majorities to pass new taxes or create new taxing bodies. That is where all the museum districts, auditorium districts, stadium districts, supplemental school bonds, and the other nonsense on your Property Tax bill have come from.

Have you ever noticed how there is tons of advertising FOR a new tax for "schools" or the new football stadium, but there is rarely any advertising AGAINST said new taxes?

Couple that with provisions that allow government entity budgets to grow every year at 3-5% (to feed government salaries and benefits that are growing faster than the private sector) and you end with ever-growing property taxes. But the problem isn't the property taxes themselves, it's that we've allowed the special interests too many easy paths to raising them.

Was discussing this at work last night - people were of the opinion that Nevada also had no property tax. I don't think this is true

Can you imagine, buying property, feeding yourself by small scale farming, and generally being independent and left the **** alone by .gov?

Hope this passes, and spreads nationwide.

And yes, you should pay for your child's education (or teach them yourself). Not the state, or rather all your neighbors.

Property Taxes are Evil ... absolutely.

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Can you imagine, buying property, feeding yourself by small scale farming, and generally being independent and left the **** alone by .gov?

In large part, this is why the taxes exist in the first place - CONTROL.

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Berkleyreindeer seems to be ok with being a perpetual serf to the state - subject only to the whims of his betters.

Ah well it takes all kinds

And yet your beliefs if implemented put no burden on him - he can write checks to the state anytime, and kowtow till the cows come home. His beliefs, however, keep you in fetters. Something to think about, no?

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And yet your beliefs if implemented put no burden on him - he can write checks to the state anytime, and kowtow till the cows come home. His beliefs, however, keep you in fetters. Something to think about, no?

it is interesting that.. isn't it....

"Karl, they'll just charge you a big up-front sales tax when you buy a house so you pay your property taxes ahead of time."


Louisiana just approved an amendment that bans the imposition of any transfer taxes on the sale of property in this state. So you can easily solve that problem too.

Spanktron9 wrote..

Oh, you'll get that consent!

Your image macro misspelled "pensions".

Regarding roads and services. I am a former (recently moved so no longer eligible) city council person. Everyone wants the best of the best until we present the bill to them. We are looking at doing a street project right now. People are already screaming and we have bluntly put it "Do you want paved or do you want gravel?" There is no other way around it. If you want paved it is going to cost x, if you want gravel its going to be considerably less. In the end it all comes down to money. I've sat in the meetings and heard the people. We want the best, we just don't want to pay for it! This mentality has to stop and repealing property taxes is going to force (in my opinion) a lot of people to look at the true cost of the services rendered. At that point they can make the decision if they think the money is giving them the return they expected. There are a lot of things hidden in that tax bill you get from the county. People pay it because what other option do you have? Let the county have your "property" for lack of paying taxes? Again just my two cents as I am smack in the middle of this debate.