Quote:

Dehumanization and generalization are literally the tools used by history's greatest mass-murderers. Any point you tried to make is completely overshadowed by your irrational response.

Police are literally the tools used by history's greatest mass-murderers. I'm not dehumanizing a marginalized segment of society, I'm denouncing the willing and eager enforcers of state-sponsored brutality and murder. What you're doing is the modern equivalent of defending the Gestapo as morally equivalent to German Jews. </godwin>

If you think my response is irrational, you haven't been paying attention to the crimes committed by police on a daily basis in the US. The only good cops are the ones that don't stand idly by and cover for their "brothers" who commit heinous crimes, and therefore are drummed out of the force and don't stay cops for very long.

In the category of escalation...

There were only a few of these that I have seen on the open mic forum at OccupyOakland.org. Nevertheless, ideas spread fast, especially, it seems in Oakland. What will the cops resort to if the protesters show up with gas masks and wooden shields? I already think what happened to the military vet was in retaliation for the cannisters being thrown back at the cops. In the end, the cops will do what they deem necessary to regain control. The G20 protests have shown us what the cops are capable of.


This is not going to end well...



RIOT GEAR!

October 26, 2011 in Open Mic

I am new to Occupy Oakland. I just watched the videos online and must say, we are the ones who should be wearing riot gear and riot shields, NOT the police. Therefore, for those who can afford it, make sure to buy this and be well prepared!!! NOTE** USE ONLY DEFENSIVE EQUIPMENT; and consider the statement this will make!!!! Occupy Oakland, Occupy Wall Street; Change (on our terms) we believe in. Feel free to search for more affordable gear, but only DEFENSIVE gear!

http://www.google.comop.com/products/cat....

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Anti-Riot-Ta....

http://www.outdoorpros.com/Prod/Premier-....

http://www.armynavyshop.com/Merchant2/me....

__________________________________________________________________________

by Projectjulio
Gear-up to Save the Movement! @projectjulio

October 26, 2011 in Announcements, Open Mic, Reflections

This Police Brutality CANNOT continue. My advice is simple and straightforward. The following DEFENSIVE EQUIPMENT is NECESSARY for continued occupation and cost less than $20 each: Full-Face Gas Masks (anti-tear gas & anti-pepper spray) and Wooden shields (anti-rubber-bullets,anti-bean-bags & anti-clubs) Also wooden shields are >$20 (or for $3 you can just saw off a plank of particle board from Home Depot) and can form an impenetrable perimeter. POLICE BRUTALITY HAS TO STOP SOMEHOW, SOMEWHERE. Let’s make it now. More info on twitter @projectjulio

P.S. I don’t make, sell or profit in any way from the sell of any of this equipment. I am just trying to provide access to cheap and effective counter-measures to protect against the police-state. As intelligent adults, I welcome and encouraged you to doubt my neutrality, but what an intelligent person can’t doubt is the effectiveness of these counter-measures. Let them lob tear-gas on a group of people wearing the same gas masks that they wear. And bring some oven-mitts or just a towel so you can lob them right back (otherwise your hand will get burned…those canisters are hot!). Let them watch their rubber bullets and bean-bags bounce right off your shields.

These are not weapons, nor is my advice intended to incite violence; this are merely protective equipment meant to secure our democracy and prevent the abuse of power blatantly shown by the 1% who are so intent on enslaving us through ignorance and intimidation. BUT NO LONGER!

_____________________________________________________________________________

by Pandora Spice
Oakland Cops making me feel Sick – An idea – get sick on them!

October 26, 2011 in Open Mic

Okay so this isn’t precisely how it went down, but last night translates basically to: Cops’ Story is

“He threw an egg at me!” so we replied with ape-like armored dudes wearing shields, masks, carrying batons, shooting off billowing tear gas, letting off flash-bang ordinance and using rubber bullets.

This whole thing makes me and others VERY SICK. My friend had an idea. Let’s all go out there en mass and eat something non-toxic but noxious. Syrup of Ipecac comes to mind. Then again, en mass, approach a plalanx of cops and projectile vomit on them.

Maybe not super productive, but dramatic, provocative, non-toxic, and attention getting. Perhaps carry signs or have shirts that say something like “This whole thing makes me ILL!”

I know personally the brutality police are capable of, my younger brother was beaten by an LA co. sheriff's deputy 20 years ago. It turned a good kid sour. There are bad cops, and reforms need to be made.

I also know excellent cops.

Wearing a badge does not make you a pig. Pigs are thugs with a badge, good cops are out there catching bad guys, rescuing people and keeping law and order. Without them we would live in total hell. As bad as things are, we have to admit we live in relative peace. This is due to the rule of law.

We need cops to enforce the law.

The problem is what comes with giving human beings the right to patrol streets with a gun on their hips. Power corrupts. And that's where we come in. The people are to hold government accountable, but we haven't.

"Then again, en mass, approach a plalanx of cops and projectile vomit on them."
not wise. the police can, have, and will arrest people for that: it is assault.

the absolute best things to do are to educate, as genesis does here virtually everyday, and to document everything that happens.

facts are facts. more people realize them every single day.

kudos, tclayton.

Quote:

I also know excellent cops thieves.

There, fixed it for you. There's no such thing as a good thief and that's the MINIMUM all cops are as they have to at least give tickets for exercising your RIGHT to travel. Cross a PUBLIC street in an "incorrect" location? Even if done safely? Another few bucks stolen for the coffers...

Badgermaster wrote..

If you think my response is irrational, you haven't been paying attention to the crimes committed by police on a daily basis in the US. ... I'm not dehumanizing a marginalized segment of society, I'm denouncing the willing and eager enforcers of state-sponsored brutality and murder. What you're doing is the modern equivalent of defending the Gestapo as morally equivalent to German Jews. </godwin>

Alright, so "utter human garbage" isn't an attempt to dehumanize; someone who is extremely aware of daily, routine Constitutional violations by "law enforcement" yet insists that individuals be judged by their own actions is still ignorant.

1. Attempts to dehumanize are propaganda, often used to justify murder.
2. Individuals are responsible for their own actions.
3. "The police" are not the ultimate enemy; it is extremely dangerous and short-sighted to hold this belief.

@Mpilar: Karen DeCoster calls them "Portable Tax Collectors".

Vidman_32 wrote..

Are you 'f'ing kidding me? Do you not hear the cries for a Kent State MOMENT?! Dont be a sucker and go for this .......I am tired of this bull****. Smells like collaboration. I can't believe you want people to cross the line against our officers that give their lives to keep us honest.

Maybe you need a boot against your neck to keep you honest, i do not. And really, give thir lives ? How many died/yr in the line of duty. Must be thousands. Nah in 2010 it was 56 fifty fukking 6. boo hoo. and i bet they all had it coming too as simple payback from being nothing more then thieves.

Vidman_32 wrote..

How many of you go to work with a threat of being hurt or done on this planet? Ya, because you are oblivious. I support police and i support pushing back losers that think they are above the law...

There is risk in waking up every day. If the cops are sooo scared and the job is soooo terrifiing, they should quit. They are not conscripts. **** them.

Vidman_32 wrote..

and by the way...the law is what a REPUBLIC stands for. obey the law...respect the law and you are safe....do not respect the law and you may be in danger. PERIOD!!!

You sir are a fukking moron

Vidman_32 wrote..

When i go to work i want to come back to my family....threats may make me react to make sure i return to them!!!

Blah blah. You sound like a cop. At the very least you are a Statist cop Apologist. So i hope your house burns down. I'd lol

Ignorantsavage wrote..

1. Attempts to dehumanize are propaganda, often used to justify murder.

True. But it comes from the cops as well. And the cops have shown that they will murder people and cover it up for fun.

Ignorantsavage wrote..

2. Individuals are responsible for their own actions.

That is true. It is lost on cops. Their first reaction is the blue line.

Ignorantsavage wrote..

3. "The police" are not the ultimate enemy; it is extremely dangerous and short-sighted to hold this belief.

They may not be the ultimate enemy, but they are damn close. They are the first line of defense in enforcement of the Police State. A role which they seem to relish - A role in which they have all volunteered for.

At best they are thieves. The worst of them are cold blooded murderers, The rest of the boys in blue apologize for them.

Cops have shown to be the enemy. The us vs them mentality started with them. That is the way they seem to like it.

I don't think there's any more benefit of the doubt to be had about cops. They are enforcers for the machine, and are as corrupt as it is. If there are any good cops out there they should be at the DA's office ratting out the bad cops.

Lowbeyond wrote..

Cops have shown to be the enemy. The us vs them mentality started with them. That is the way they seem to like it.

Cops have been shown to be AN enemy. Undoubtedly, in my current day-to-day life as well as historically, cops have been the biggest threat to my personal safety and that of my wallet than any criminal (for reference, I'm a typical office worker). The danger lies in assessing all members of a mostly-threatening group as equal to the threat posed by the worst among them, since by that measure ALL humans are bad since every human that has done me wrong has been... human.

Undoubtedly, there are corrupt cops. Undoubtedly, there are evil cops. Yes, a very dangerous "us versus them" mentality has been cultivated by cops. None of this negates the matter that each cop is a human being that is responsible for his/her own choices.

Can you articulate your point of view to a cop? If not, why not? Have you thought through courses of action and their consequences should attempts to use reason fail? Can you accept such consequences? If not, what have you done to try to address the problem peaceably?

Ignorantsavage wrote..

None of this negates the matter that each cop is a human being that is responsible for his/her own choices.

That is true. And other then some corner cases, its business as usual/blue line/put some ice on that bull**** that is condoned by the hypothetical good cops.

Ignorantsavage wrote..

Can you articulate your point of view to a cop?

Yes. But so what. If they want to charge you with bull****, beat you, kill you tough ****, they will do as they please. Then they will wrap themselves in qualified immunity, exigent circumstance, etc, if that fails the fall back is failure to obey/interfering with government administration or some other bull**** which boils down to respect mah authority. Have fun going BK in court sukker.

http://www.pagunblog.com/2011/05/16/phil....
Why just today, this guy was found not guilty after open carrying in phily legally. So the boys in blue charged him with reckless endangerment and disorderly conduct. Why ? Just because. Hell its not their $$ that has to be spent to fight a bull**** charge.

Ignorantsavage wrote..

If not, why not? Have you thought through courses of action and their consequences should attempts to use reason fail? Can you accept such consequences?

Why yes i have. Every one has their line. I know where mine is. The consequence of that is that I will likely be dead. If not that second, the largest gang in the US will hunt me down and kill me later on. Everyone dies of something. I've made my peace with it. Have you ?

Ignorantsavage wrote..

If not, what have you done to try to address the problem peaceably?

Why maybe i should write a letter, or vote ! That will change things ! Sorry the corruption and attitude by the uniformed thieves is systematic. Nothing will change until they are stripped of their power or dead. Since the second also gives the first, that seems to be the most efficient and thus the preferred choice

Quote:

I want to express our deepest concern for all of those who were injured last night, and we are committed to ensuring this does not happen again. Investigations of certain incidents are underway and I will personally monitor them.

We understand and recognize the impact this event has had on the community and acknowledge what has happened. We cannot change the past, but we are committed to doing better.

Anyone see any reference to prosecuting ? Or is it, let's just move on and forget about it ?

The protesters need to demand prosecution.

I am a member at that AR15 site. I tried to talk some sense in that thread, but I doubt it will take, too many brainwashed individuals there I am afraid.

Hooray, I can post now.
Longtime ticker reader, forum lurker, Libertarian, and "Occupy" supporter (so far).
Hi to all.

There is a big Oathkeepers banner displayed very prominently at the local Occupy site. It wasn't there yesterday.

Hi Freeflyfreak. Are there no moderators at that site?

Not sure if this was posted yet but a buddy of mine (went to grade school and high school together) was featured on business insider and RT... Supposedly has been approached by numerous news organizations as well...

http://rt.com/usa/news/marine-oakland-re....

Believe it or not, Lowbeyond, it seems that we're much more in agreement than not. The major points of contention seems to be the specific people-group most responsible for the troubles of ordinary folk, and the immediate course of action to take.

Lowbeyond wrote..

Why maybe i should write a letter, or vote ! That will change things ! Sorry the corruption and attitude by the uniformed thieves is systematic. Nothing will change until they are stripped of their power or dead. Since the second also gives the first, that seems to be the most efficient and thus the preferred choice

In essense, your argument seems to be "it's more expedient to kill the cops". I don't disagree with the conclusion, but with the idea that the most expedient path is the one to take.

Cops do what their bosses tell them to do. Cop bosses are often hired by city councils. City councils are funded by federal and State governments. Politicians in federal, State, and local governments are elected by people.

As unpleasant as it may be, the root of the problem seems to be with We the People. Until we assert responsibility for our own selves, the lack of responsibility being the root of the problem, how can attacking a branch (and while very visible, a small branch far away from the root) of the problem solve anything?

Now, if there is a direct criminal act being committed or threatened by any government agent, by definition, that agent is a criminal. I've repeatedly posted here that even our governments recognize the legitimacy of self-defense against criminal government actors, often by referring to the court case of Bad Elk vs United States.

BTW: The officer that threw the stun concussion grenade has been identified.

It's no secret to the police, so should not be to readers here and elsewhere: Within the citizen media among the crowds are those that are photo and video recording these events with enhanced spatial techniques. These images and video can be forensically dissected at a later date to clearly place and more importantly separate the identities of players in these events that regular photo images cannot accomplish. The courts have allowed this as admissible and particularly powerful evidence for years.

The police are doing it too, but importantly, they are not the only kid on the block able to deploy these methods that are commonly available to anyone. Technology, especially cheap and readily available technology can be a bitch, especially to those that wrongly think they have the corner on the market.

They don't


Also, regarding Scott Olsen, the police created an environment that eliminated the ability to properly handle the medical response to his needs. Even from just the pictures, Scott rated on a GCS scale as '3'. (Glasgow Coma Scale), That is out of 15 for a fully oriented patient. Basically, just 1 tick above 'Full Arrest'. His brain injury was further complicated by the unavoidable way his 'rescurers' were forced to handle his body. In the picture, he already, as in ALREADY, has what is referred to 'owl eyes', a term that describes the sub-orbital swelling (evidence of brain injury/swelling) you can already see below his opened eye.

This is class 'A' neuro-trauma patient, and it's obvious right away. There was kinetic energy, LOTS OF IT, life threating amounts, that was inflicted by the so called 'non-lethal' round fired at close range.

The police know full well the potential fatal effects of these weapons, and the use of them by default indicates they intend the use of deadly force no matter however else they choose to try to explain it away.

From Reuter's http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/2....

Quote:

A spokeswoman for Highland General Hospital in Oakland said that former U.S. Marine Scott Olsen, 24, had been upgraded from critical to fair condition overnight.

The spokeswoman declined to offer further details but friends said Olsen was breathing on his own and could undergo surgery in the next day or so

Scott isn't out of the woods yet...

Quote:

Quote:

But, she just told O'Reilly that she supports the OWS! She thinks its being co-opted by the far left, and thinks that would be a shame because she thinks the protesters have a point about crony capitalism, and they are right. She specifically called out that she'd be*****ed too if you caught an unfortunate break due to crony capitalism all while the Goldman Sachs crew hobnobs with Obama and rakes in big bailouts.

Seriously? I need that clip.

@Pika-Steph

Ann Coulter chimes in at about the 9:30 mark of the clip. Sounds like she's slowly starting to come round.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfziT0KL....

Hillary was reporting on to Congress yesterday on her recent trip to Pakistan:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canad....

Quote:

"I explained that trying to distinguish between so-called good terrorists and bad terrorists is ultimately self-defeating and dangerous.

"No one who targets innocent civilians of any nationality should be tolerated or protected," she told the committee.

(So presumably she'll be helping the Federal investigation ... ?)

A poignant coincidence to remember should she ever run for anything again.

@Starvingartist

I rarely visit that site so I am not familiar the moderation there.
I only joined because I was researching building an AR15 a while back.
Haven't been back there since, except when I saw the link here.
Having read that thread over there I doubt I will ever want to visit that site again.
Reminds me of a Sig Sauer site that I got banned from a while back.

Full of folks who get their news from a single source.....Fox News.
They always know best, because their single source is so "fair and balanced" LOL

It gives me shivers to know that there are people who think like the people in that thread, it is sad really.
Of course they are entitled to their opinion, just as we are.

Quote:

The sad fact that when things get out of hand like this - people get cowed (sp?),
they back down and back down quick, and then go grumbling on facebook instead. This is getting all too real - and quick, Yuri Bezmenov was right...

Well, that is the tragedy of it all and I agree for the most part. People are creatures of security and comfort by nature and recoil into a fetal position at the thought of anything that invades their sensitvities that way.

That's the intention of the police violence. Stun the people into silence early and with overpowering force as to not have to deal with anything larger later.

But, there is also another side to this. Among the population there is a significant element that thrives on danger. One of the most interesting historical examples was in London during the Blitz of World War II. After a certain period where as many people who could evacutate the city did, there were a large number of others that actually WANTED to be there despite the falling bombs and rampant fires.

After reaching a low point, the population of Greater London actually GREW. and grew significantly with those enticed by chaos. These were the kind of people that are thrill seekers and will tell you they don't feel quite 'alive' unless they are cheating death on a daily basis. They are the same kind of people that are sky divers that aren't that keen on checking their parachute pack before bailing out of an airplane, or just love putting their head into the mouth of an alligator. The adrenaline rush is addictive to them and the more dangerous it is, the bigger the high.

And among the protesters, you see lots of similarly psyched out characters who feed on violence and adversity. They are there and will always be there creating a living contradiction and overturning the original message everyone wants to believe in. They are well known to life-long activists and you will see the stalwarts in a constant form of behaviour modification trying to dampen their effect.

They are ones the stand out and find their way to the press cameras providing ample fodder for those that wish to paint a movement with their own biases. These characters often use the emblems of fringe movements as cover and excuse for what is essentially a narcisistic addiction to death defying moments.

Most of the press is too shallow, deadline driven or editorially filtered to have the capacity to look further into the various currents which comprise a movement. It's far easier to only see what passes before their eyes without asking the why or what for in much the same way as their audience.

@Bjonsson: Thanks for the clip.

O'Reily and Morris both deserve their own lampposts right beside the banksters. O'Reilly, trying to gin up an anti-semitism charge, and Morris claiming that there is Muslim influence with the OWSers -- both of these jackasses are now beyond the pale.

Quote:

O'Reily and Morris both deserve their own lampposts right beside the banksters. O'Reilly, trying to gin up an anti-semitism charge, and Morris claiming that there is Muslim influence with the OWSers -- both of these jackasses are now beyond the pale.

Also,

The last 90 second segment with the worst drag show EVER, (adams apple) Coulter, is hallucinating to think she he is in any way becoming sympathetic to OWS. A baldface and blatant twisting of words to serve an agenda in the most painfully obvious way. Just like the hormone adjusted voice she he speaks garbage with consecutively. Legions of absolutely blind, actually blind, followers.