| User Info
| An Example Of What Should Lead To Handcuffs in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Icanhasbailout
Posts: 9939
Incept: 2009-03-10
Imaginationland
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Harrisonact
Posts: 1754
Incept: 2010-10-04
canada
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I thought if fraud underpinned the deal there was no SOL.
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bilge
My playbook speaks español. Deal with it. Im too lazy to fix it.
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9761
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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Barring fraud, how many years is the statute of limitations?
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Genesis
Posts: 130762
Incept: 2007-06-26
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For securities fraud, typically five years.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Mortgageguymn
Posts: 1566
Incept: 2009-03-09
North Coast
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No sense implementing regulations if they're going to just be ignored. Even regulations that contain an "or else" can be ignored. Regulations that are mere illusions - like Dodd-Frank are worse than nothing. Claiming to eliminate & foreswear bank bailouts while simultaneously creating a bailout insurance fund gives the lie to any pretense of a willingness to take prompt corrective action.
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2661
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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It has always amazed me how we can have a war on drugs and long prison sentences for what amounts to petty crimes and then you can rip off millions and break people and get off with a slap on the wrist. All considered, we should probably have a war on wall street.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Imustbenutz
Posts: 283
Incept: 2010-11-04
Absurdistan, USSA
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War on Wall Street? How about a war on Oligarchy? Failure to prosecute the participants in the plethora of financial frauds IS proof that Amerika is no longer a Republic.
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Irritatedcitizen
Posts: 72
Incept: 2011-05-20
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I wish Stewart (or Ratigan?) would pick this up and run with it. It needs very broad dissemination.
Also, Imustbenutz, would you mind if I used a slightly tweaked version of that last sentence in my sig? As follows:
"Failure to prosecute the participants in the plethora of financial frauds is PROOF that America is no longer a Republic."
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Leicestersq
Posts: 221
Incept: 2009-10-12
UK
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Does the statute of limitations only apply to criminal matters?
Is there a case for removing this limitation in light of the fact that evidence often only becomes available years after the event.
What about those who lost money, are they going to sue Citigroup for the lost money, plus damages? Should be an easy enough case to win.
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Starvingartist
Posts: 3430
Incept: 2011-01-03
Puff The Magic Dragon
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Can Citi be sued for something the SEC has already settled?
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"The only solution that is mathematically sound is politically impossible.
All the should's in the world ain't gonna change that."
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Blurtman
Posts: 563
Incept: 2009-01-24
Banned
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This is simply boiler room fraud, plain and simple. Consider that we have had a recent Treasury Secretary who profited from this very type of crude fraud, Hank Paulson. Create toxic securities, bribe willing rating agencies to give them the triple A, profit by selling this crap to dupes, and magnify your profits by shorting the crap out of it, or taking out multiple CDS on the garbage. And when your poisoned bookie AIG cannot pay, your former criminal CEO, now US Treasury Secretary, ensures that your bookie makes good on your bets with tax payer dollars.
This is not a very sophisticated crime. It is quite amazing for its brazen obviousness, however.
It is the very anatomy of an illegal wealth transfer. This is exactly how it is done.
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I have a reading comprehension problem and the owner banned me for repeatedly displaying it after being warned.
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Buddy
Posts: 157
Incept: 2008-10-25
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No statute of limitations on pulling your money out of Citigroup and it's
subsidiaries, into a non-TBTF
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Buddy
Posts: 157
Incept: 2008-10-25
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I wonder what the statute of limitations are for what Bill Black has in
mind?
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Vitaeus
Posts: 53
Incept: 2010-10-05
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At least they settled for more than the fees and profits. Most of the rest of the examples from the last few years, they still made a profit on the one's they got caught doing. Progress of a sort <sarcasm /off>
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1227
Incept: 2011-04-14
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The description of this theft says nothing about who we selling/originated the crap that was selected for the CDO.
I would bet that either Citigroup owned a lot of the crap and wanted to unload it OR, they got a fee or some kickback from whoever owned it to help them get rid of it. RICO anyone?
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see:
S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu.
"You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns
The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Glennb6
Posts: 480
Incept: 2009-03-02
ne florida
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if it's dirty rotten immoral that's one thing. If it's b/w letter of the law then what about a citizens arrest?
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Mezcal
Posts: 1832
Incept: 2007-08-04
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 Enemies of the state.
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"God knows who is a counter-party to whom in the mammoth international cluster**** of accounting fraud that passes for a commerce in capital."
Kunstler, 13 June 2011
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Mac
Posts: 159
Incept: 2009-09-04
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I'd like to see the sons of bitches who originated this thing, along with the bastards who allowed it, given a show trial where they explained everything that happened. Then they should have to explain IN DETAIL why they thought doing this was permissible. After that, the senior management of Citigroup should have to explain why they, personally, should not be liable for RICO penalties. All should be videotaped and run on national television on primetime.
Then, the sons of bitches, the bastards, and the senior management should be fined for every dime they have and every asset they own. Following that, they and their immediate families should have their citizenship revoked and be immediately deported to Liberia.
That's actually being kind. They deserve to be shot out of hand.
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Christiangustafson
Posts: 4140
Incept: 2007-06-27
Helping Hand Acceptance Corporation
Banned
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Mad Max is the answer!
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It is therefore, on opinion only that government is founded... -- Hume
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Lugnut
Posts: 348
Incept: 2008-09-24
New Jersey
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"Where are the handcuffs for the obvious false statements? This "transaction" was a clear (and successful) attempt to simply rob people." Theres a simple fact at play here. The SEC can only enforce it's own rules, and is limited by what it can do to companies, it has no criminal prosecution authority. Plus, 9 digit fines have a nice way of rouding out annual budgets. The SEC and the State AGs have to either investgate and prosecute these cases independently or jointly. I imagine a joint investigation between these two regulatory behemoths would be like watching 2 700 pound people trying to make love. Sharing of information and responsibilities probably isnt their strong suit. The real problem here isnt the SEC its the Attorney Generals who make the settlements instead of prosecuting. Citi has a precedent to know that it can settle with AGs and eat the fines as a cost of doing business. http://www.advisorone.com/2008/08/07/cit.... |
Bigbluffer
Posts: 1330
Incept: 2010-11-01
NC
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To answer a couple of questions:
For securities fraud: There is two years after the discovery of the fraud to file suit, with a five absolute statute of limitations.
Mac,
There are individual charges pending against one individual from Citi, the one who put the CDO together, selected the assets, and wrote the non-disclosing disclosures. However, there is email evidence that his boss knew of the deal, and obviously the proprietary trading desk at Citi knew of the bad deal because they put $500M of short bets, $490 of which was naked shorts, on the CDO. No charges against any or them.
Instead, Citi was fined and allowed to consent to the charges without admitting or denying any allegations. In other words, Citi is allowed to say "we'll pay the money to make this suit go away, but we didn't do anything wrong", as has happened in other settlement agreements.
Will we ever get an admission/verdict of guilt, much less handcuffs?
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Mikek31
Posts: 4357
Incept: 2009-05-04
Chicago
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The problem is that these settlements all boil down to nothing other than a "cost of doing business." In other words, they'll keep doing this because the cost is negligible. No surprise at this late stage of the game. What bugs me more now is who in their right damn mind would continue to do business with such an entity? Anybody and everybody who has dealt with Citi, Goldman, et. al. has to be seriously questioning just wtf is going on here, if not pulling funds outright. My point is, where are the (domestic) bank runs?
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Intentional manipulation of markets is usually thought of as a crime, not a benefit, and should lead to indictments, not praise. -Karl
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Steelhead23
Posts: 2043
Incept: 2008-09-09
Portland OR
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Note: The profits to Citi appear to exceed the fine. That is, there were 500 million in assets assigned to the trust. For the sake of assuming the worst, let us say that all 500 million was originated by Citi or was held by Citi and they very well knew its odor. On top of the 500mm, Citi picked up $34mm in fees and $126mm from its "sure thing" shorts. Thus, for incurring prosecution risk, Citi "earned" $660 million. Then, when caught, including extremely harmful emails, they got dunned $285mm. As it turns out, the reward was over double the incurred risk. That's brilliant risk management. So, Citi's CFO would no doubt term this a brilliant play, perhaps even touting Citi's great skill in getting away with theft to potential equity investors. Citibank, we make money the old fashioned way - we steal it!
BTW - I agree that SEC is weak beyond belief, but I believe in assigning most blame to the perps - Citigroup, not SEC. I suspect SEC workers feel like they are in a war zone - with damn little political support. They likely felt that they got all they could and lacked political support to seek a fine that would exceed Citi's vig.
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"Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" —Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild Benjamin Bernanke
For-profit commercial banks are a menace and should be eradicated
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Andyc
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-24
Banned
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"Consider that we have had a recent Treasury Secretary who profited from this very type of crude fraud, Hank Paulson."
Funny that the Harvard Endowment Hank was running didn't profit from these very same type of positions..Harvard lost a few billion...then again maybe someone else profited on that failure
: )
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