Raising CAIN? A Critical Look At Policy
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2011-10-15 13:25
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
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Raising CAIN? A Critical Look At Policy
 

Well look at the dichotomy we have here.... both from Bloomberg this morning.

First, on tax policy:

Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain’s plan to create a national sales tax would hurt retailers, threaten economic growth and shift the tax burden onto the middle class and poor, tax experts and business groups said.

Would it?  I'm not sold.  All that matters to the average person is purchasing power.

That is, the number of dollars you have is not particularly material.  What they will buy is what's important.  And here's the rub: You pay 15% of your income right now - everyone does that has "wage" income, whether self-employed or working for someone else.

Yes, half of that is "hidden" from you in the form of the payroll tax, but make no mistake, it's your money being taken.  Your employer calculates the cost of that tax into your hiring decision, just as he does with all the other levies he pays, such as unemployment tax (FUTA and SUTA) and similar.  He may be prohibited by law from itemizing this on your pay stub (he is - I attempted to do it and was told by our accountants that I'd get a date with Bubba for doing so) but that doesn't mean you don't pay - you do, and it's hidden through accounting fictions enforced at federal gunpoint.

So let's presume you pay the "9 + 9" - 9% of your gross income (no deductions) and 9% sales tax on what you choose to buy.

If you spend everything you make, what's your effective federal tax?

That's easy to calculate.  You start with $100.

You pay 9% in federal income tax, withheld at the point of payment.  You now have $91.

You go to the store.  You spend the entire $91.  How much goods do you buy?

$83.48 worth ($83.48 * 1.09 = $90.99 on the register tape.)

So your actual effective tax rate is approximately 16.5%, or 1.5% more than you pay right now in FICA and Medicare alone!

This assumes you spend every penny you make. 

But let's assume you save 10% of your gross.  That is, instead of spending $83.48 you spend $73.48.  Now the total bill at the register is $80.09, representing $6.61 in tax added to the $9 you have withheld.  Your effective tax rate is now 15.6%, or a full percentage point lower.

If you manage to save 15% of your gross you pay almost exactly the same tax rate you pay now for Medicare and Social Security aloneIn other words if you spend every nickel you pay an effective income tax rate of 1.5% and if you save 15% of your pre-tax income your effective income tax rate is zero.

So who gets "screwed" with this plan?  Well, nobody.  It forces everyone to have "skin in the game."  Refundable tax credits disappear which means that everyone pays social insurance taxes.  This is how it should be!

What Cain is missing (and perhaps intentionally; if so he's a jackass, not a savior) is that saving 15% of your income is more than sufficient, along with a modest help from Social Security and Medicare, to self-fund your entire retirement from savings alone.  That is, it requires no risk-taking in the "capital markets."  There's only one condition on this: The Federal Government and The Fed must be forced to stop debasing the currency -- that is, they must run a zero inflation policy under penalty of imprisonment (or worse.)  If Cain supports this, then he's a reformer.  If he does not, he's simply playing politics and intends to screw you blind via hidden taxation.

There are others who bleat about the impact on financial services.  If I'm understanding Cain's proposal correctly, they're wrong: You would pay sales tax on the service of brokering a trade.  If you pay $8 a trade at a brokerage the tax would be 9% on the $8, not on the value of the securities.

The 9% income tax on corporations would redress the double-taxation of dividends, again, if I'm understanding the proposal correctly.  This would go a long way toward fixing the abortion that is found in the current tax code that provides incentives for corporate borrowing and makes the payment of income to shareholders prohibitively expensive through double-taxation of capital return.  That, more than anything else in the corporate tax code, is responsible for the abuse of leverage in business.  Cain has this part of the plan exactly right.

I also want to look at another part of his pronouncements:

Herman Cain’s self-described “bold” 9-9-9 tax proposal has received most of the attention in his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination. His plans for the federal budget are more radical.

Cain this week pledged at a debate to balance the government’s books in a single year if elected. This would require the elimination of what the Congressional Budget Office projects may be a more than $800 billion deficit in 2013.

Erasing the deficit that quickly would mean a more than 20 percent cut in spending, which could force reductions in politically sensitive programs such as Social Security, Medicare or defense, since they make up more than half the budget.

Actually, it's more than that.  $800 billion is a fanciful number; we ran $1.7 trillion in deficits in calendar 2010, and are going to be well over $1 trillion in 2011.  To believe we will get under that number by 2013 presumes forward economic conditions that are, on balance, pure fantasies.

The complaint that this would require "massive" budget cuts is in fact accurate.  The bad news is that due to the nature of compound growth in any economic system the longer we wait the worse the problem gets and the more pain we must endure to correct it.

In other words while Cain's proposal is "radical" it is only as radical as it is because we intentionally ignored this idiocy for 30 years, and in the last three years we went from a ~20% cut in federal spending that was required (from nearly zero a decade before!) to a 43% one.  Before another decade passes we will reach the point that achieving balance will require a default, not a cut in government programs.  At that point we are literally Greece.

Republicans in Congress have had to settle for promising to put the government “on the path” toward balance and calling for a constitutional amendment that would require the government to balance its books. While the amendment has little chance of being approved, it does allow lawmakers to underscore their desire to cut spending.

No they don't.  And it doesn't matter whether the people are "ready" to hear this or not.

Mathematics does not care if you're politically correct or "politically willing" to hear what it proscribes.  It just is.

Cain's plans are not "radical", they're mathematically sound.  I understand the screaming that is coming from the left and right on the issue, but the fact that politicians are trying to find yet another Unicorn that craps out pretty colored candies will not make it so.  These same politicians produced this:

And now wish to argue that the consequences of having done so should not be theirs.

I'm very sorry folks but there is no avoiding the inevitable, and the longer you put off accepting it the worse the outcome will be.

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User Info Raising CAIN? A Critical Look At Policy in forum [Market-Ticker]
Shannonlk1
Posts: 108
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I would be all for this plan. The only issue I have with this type of plan is this, once the USA has a national sales tax, the rate will go up at some point. Also, they will NEVER allow a straight flat income tax. there are too many special interest groups that will want and or have "Special" deductions or tax credits. If they just eliminated all the garbage in the tax code for all the small groups I would guess it would make a huge difference.

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Criminals thrive on the indulgence of Society's understanding.
O.jeff
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I did not realize it, but Cain actually describes his 999 plan as step on the way to the FairTax.

http://www.hermancain.com/999plan

He says,

"Amidst a backdrop of the economic renewal created by the 9-9-9 Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.

* Ultimately replaces individual and corporate income taxes
* Ends the IRS as we know it and repeals the 16th Amendment"

Duc888
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....he almost redeems himself from previously working for the FED banksters.

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...burp
Searcy17
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Thanks for running the math on this. I'm always amazed that those calling for higher taxes on "the rich" refuse to admit that the taxes get passed on to the little guy in higher prices. Of course, our tax laws don't necessarily apply to foreign companies...so it also hurts competitiveness. A sales tax is superior in every way to income. It would apply to goods sold in the USA, regardless where they originate. Further, since capital comes from savings, and the tax is voluntary, it fosters capital formation. Finally, its transparent. More information makes for better decisions, economically and politically.
Sandor
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If he has a chance of being elected, prepare for the largest buying spree this country has ever seen.

I will spend 10 of thousands on stuff I think I will need for the next decade to dodge the 9% national sales tax.

Blindskov
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Herman Cain's only mistakes thus far are praising Alan Greenspan and discrediting the occupy wall street movement.
Jaydawg
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I think I heard somewhere that used goods would not be taxed the 9%. Not sure if this is true or not.
Genesis
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Jay, I believe that is correct. It is a sales tax only on new goods (and all services, which by definition are always new.)

This is very close to the Fair Tax. The criticism (and it's valid) is that by leaving the income tax in place it would not be terribly difficult to corrupt the entire thing.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?

Zzt
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999 sounds reasonable to me except for the same reason Shannon mentioned : Once there is a national sales tax , how easy will it be to just raise the rate every 6 months ? That could be a fly in the ointment.

However , regarding Cain , I dont know what else he feels on other subjects which are just as important as his tax proposal. What is his stance on gun control ? What type of judicial appointments would he make ? Does he have a foreign policy ? Is he in favor of a carbon tax ?

Cain appealed to me because he is about the only candidate to mention specifics instead of vague meaningless BS. His proposal of the 999 plan is a prime example. Other candidates say things like , " We have to make the economic environment more business friendly. " WTF does that mean ? As usual , from politicians , it means exactly nothing.

What little I know about 999 I like. What little I know about Cain...........???


Anyone but Romney !!!

1lumpor2
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Phase One

•9% Business Flat Tax
Gross income less all purchases from other U.S. located businesses, all capital investment, and net exports.
Empowerment Zones will offer deductions for the payroll of those employed in the zone
•9% Individual Flat Tax.
Gross income less charitable deductions.
Empowerment Zones will offer additional deductions for those living and/or working in the zone.
•9% National Sales Tax.
Unlike a state sales tax, which is an add-on tax that increases the price of goods and services, this is a replacement tax. It replaces taxes that are already embedded in selling prices. By replacing higher marginal rates in the production process with lower marginal rates, marginal production costs actually decline, which will lead to prices being the same or lower, not higher.
•Economic Impact
According to former Reagan Treasury official Gary Robbins, of Fiscal Associates, the 9-9-9 Plan will expand GDP by $2 trillion, create 6 million new jobs, increase business investment by one third, and increase wages by 10%.


9-9-9 Plan: Summary
•Removes all payroll taxes and unites all tax payers
•Provides the least incentive to evade taxes and the fewest opportunities to do so
•Lifts a $430 billion dead-weight burden on the economy due to compliance, enforcement, collection, etc…
•Is fair, simple, efficient, neutral, and transparent
•Ends nearly all deductions and special interest favors
•Features zero tax on capital gains and repatriated profits
•Exports leave our shores without the Business Tax or the Sales Tax embedded in their cost, making them world class competitive. Imports are subject to the same taxation as domestically produced goods, leveling the playing field.
•Lowest marginal rates on production
•Kills the Death Tax
•Allows immediate expensing of business investments
•Eliminates double taxation of dividends
•Increases capital formation which aids capital availability for small businesses
•Increased capital per worker drives productivity and wage growth
•Features a platform to launch properly structured Empowerment Zones to renew our inner cities
•The pro-growth, pro-job, pro-export economic policies of the 9-9-9 Plan equals a strong dollar policy


Phase 2 – The Fair Tax

Amidst a backdrop of the economic renewal created by the 9-9-9 Plan, I will begin the process of educating the American people on the benefits of continuing the next step to the Fair Tax.
•Ultimately replaces individual and corporate income taxes
•Ends the IRS as we know it and repeals the 16th Amendment


http://www.hermancain.com/999plan


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-- Done

Mortgageguymn
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Not that senior citizens should be given whatever they want, but how would they fare under 9-9-9? Currently they have no earned income; thus they wouldn't save from the elimination of payroll taxes. Would their loss due to the sales tax be offset elsewhere under 9-9-9? The first attacks on 9-9-9 talked about it being regressive against poor workers. That was fairly easily disproven, so now the liberal attack is that 9-9-9 would hurt non-earners (mostly the retired).

Aside from the merits/demerits of some seniors paying more taxes, how would this actually affect retired Floridians? Because if they would lose out under 9-9-9, then Cain could never be elected.
Maitski
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Atlanta
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Cain's plan doesn't allow wages to be deducted from revenue when calculateing the business tax. Therefore the employee will be paying the 9% business tax on their wages.

If I hire someone for $50,000 and I only generate $50,000 in revenue, my profit is zero but I will have to pay the 9% business tax on the whole revenue. That's $4500 that has to come from somewhere. That means I can only pay the employee $45,500. Therefore in effect, the employee pays 9% business tax on his wages, then 9% on the wages in his paycheck and then 9% sales tax on what he spends so some people can end up being taxed 27%. That's a big detail that most people are missing.
Mortgageguymn
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Also, would S Corporations pay the 9% income tax? How about schedule C's? presumably "no" to the latter (since it's right within an individual's tax return), but the phrase "9% Business Flat Tax" is not specific enough (IMO) to be certain.

Cain has balls for proposing anything specific at all.
Mortgageguymn
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Maitski, Citation? I frankly don't believe that. Especially from a guy who ran businesses with high labor costs. Remember the YouTube of him with Clinton?
Dropout
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One of my biggest problems with government, at all levels, is that the first place they look to solve problems is "How can we raise more money?", ie, turn up the suction. They never want to address their outrageous spending sprees. We have it here with our local government: they're millions of dollars in the hole, and all they can think about is "How can we tax people more to make up for our shortfall?"

Any kind of federal sales tax IMO will just be added to the tax we already have, so I get kinda sick whenever I hear someone rooting for it.
Duzzeldorf
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Incept: 2008-04-01

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I have always liked the idea of a national sales tax to replace the income tax, it really is a Fair method. Having experience with S-Corp and 1099's, there is alot of money hiding there, been there done that. It was very easy to fudge alot of numbers.
Only thing I don't like is the incremental instituting of the plan, as history has told us not to trust the gov. Wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a increasing 9-9-9 income tax, with a increasing national sales tax on top of state sales tax.
No need for phases, I'll make it easy. Pick April 16th any year, flip straight from income straight to national sales tax, and drop the income tax in the same day. Absolutely no need to draw out the implementation.

Reason: spelling
Mortgageguymn
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You're right, Dropout. That's why the battle never ends. It would probably be harder to raise the sales tax rate on everyone, though, than to raise various taxes on only some people (the "rich" however that's defined).
Janedeaux
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the other thing I like about Cain is that the libs can't scream "racist," as they do for anything they disagree with

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A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.-anon


Dropout
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They always spend more than they take in. So to me, it doesn't matter how much they take in or what method they use to get it: it won't be enough.

I'm not voting any more; it just doesn't make sense. Politicians lie to get in office (win the popularity contest) and then do whatever they want once there, with no consequences, other than maybe not getting elected next time. And usually, they use their new power in the first 4 years to ensure their election the next time, with frequent mailings (and continued lies) to their constituents.

To win an election, you have to be:
- rich, or have your hand out all the time
- decent looking
- a good speaker, with convincing lies
- and have no ethics: a person with ethics could not put up with the bull**** of politics

In short, you have to win a popularity contest. Thinking back to high school, are the popular kids the ones you'd want running government? At my school, they were mostly dumb jocks with well-developed bods and rocks in their heads, and cute air-head girls. The "popular" folks are the ones we want running the country?

The only answers I can come up with are:
- elections don't work
- government doesn't work

Therefore, make this broken government contraption as small as possible, and responsible for as little as possible, so it can do the least damage.
Otiswild
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Inside you, the force is!
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So how long before 9/9/9 becomes 10/10/10 and then 15/15/15?

NO federal sales tax WITHOUT abolition of the 16th amendment FIRST.
1lumpor2
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So how long before the Income/Payroll tax we have now goes to 40% then to 60%? The 2nd phase of 9-9-9 is the repeal of the 16th Amendment, this is a way there. If before we get to phase 2, they try to raise it to 10-10-10 or 15-15-15, EVERYBODY will know that THEIR taxes were raised and by WHO and by how much. Most folks don't even know what percentage they pay in taxes now. Everybody that paid tax got a cut from the Bush tax cuts, the lower the income the greater the tax cut as a percentage. Think most people know that? With 9-9-9 TPTB will not be able to fool people with tax increase games, it will be out in the open for everyone to see, therefore to raise the rates would be political suicide.

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-- Done

Dazedncornfused
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For me arguing about the implementation specifics is just rearranging deck chairs, it's arguing Atkins vs Pritikin with someone who insists on eating 5500 calories a day. Government taxing, spending and borrowing needs to be cut back, drastically. Now. It doesn't matter how, although I like the idea of everybody paying something.

Maitski>Cain's plan doesn't allow wages to be deducted from revenue when calculateing the business tax. Therefore the employee will be paying the 9% business tax on their wages. <

OK it does matter. Michigan has the Single Business Tax, it's a VAT. You don't want that, trust me. Anybody who sells wedding photographs, which have an incredible markup when the schooling, practice, DSLR and lens purchases, and money paid to assistants including mileage and motels aren't included, will verify this.

Lots of small business owners are ready to stop working and sit down. See what happens to the SNAP crowd then.

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Stand up and be counted or line up and be numbered.
Widgeon
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Region formerly known as the United States
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Either kill the income tax from day 1 or the stage is set for yet another bait'n switch.
Nanna
Posts: 5659
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Gold
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Quote:
Cain's plan doesn't allow wages to be deducted from revenue when calculateing the business tax. Therefore the employee will be paying the 9% business tax on their wages.


Exactly. It's a flat tax on business, as deductions are eliminated, both above and below the line.

However, I don't get the logic in the second sentence. Wouldn't it be the BUSINESS paying extra in taxes not the employee?

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"There are fluctuations in the market that don't mean anything."Ira Gluskin, February 14, 2012
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