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| Germany To Leave The Euro? in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Pa.
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I don't think the Germans will start the cascade. It's more likely they're preparing for when the cascade begins.
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Welcome to Pottersville
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Rarnopp
Posts: 892
Incept: 2008-02-26
London, United Kingdom
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Let's not forget that the German governing class wanted the Euro, largely for selfish reasons. By eliminating exchange rate risk in Europe, it gave them an enormous "domestic" market, while the inclusion of the weaker southern brethren within the Euro-zone ensured that the new currency was kept relatively weak (at least, weaker than the D-Mark was), thereby assisting German competitiveness in world markets.
The Germans would be mad if they were not formulating contingency plans for the contraction of the Euro-zone to its northern core, or even outright collapse, but they will not initiate this.
I persist in thinking that the Euro-zone will shed members but survive.
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"Things and actions are what they are, and the consequences of them will be what they will be: why then should we desire to be deceived?" - Bishop Joseph Butler
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Particenens
Posts: 9669
Incept: 2008-01-16
Peak Bund
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A banker is a fellow who lends you his umbrella when the sun is shining, but wants it back the minute it begins to rain
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Goldbrick
Posts: 2946
Incept: 2008-01-23
Indiana
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Hey Bartender, another round of Gotterdammerung for everyone!
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"The higher I go, the crookeder it gets." --Michael Corleone
"Instead of cursing the darkness, light a CONgressman."
Reason: typo
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Stonedog
Posts: 2080
Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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COuld I have that with an order of Schadenfreude
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"I would characterize my professional disdain as more of a professional contempt for their [Central Banker, Banker and politician] economic and financial policies, priorities, presumptions and prescriptions." - Lauren Lyster on Capital Account for Friday June 16, 2012
"All the stimulus, the bailouts, the quantit
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Snowman
Posts: 1798
Incept: 2009-03-09
avoiding yellow snow
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I think returning to D-Mark is a real possibility and knowing how Germany works (they first look after their own) it is a contingency plan in case (no, when) TSHTF. Pippa Malmgren - an insider into the these workings, has connected the dots and makes, I believe, convincing arguments. http://www.pippamalmgren.com/77.htmlIn any case, shorting the euro against usd is still my bet both medium and longer term.
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Preidt2
Posts: 552
Incept: 2009-07-31
spokane/wash
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Maybe Germany is the only country with BRAINS!!!!! FIRST OUT first to bebuild
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Puppets Under Destruction
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Jamesbond
Posts: 589
Incept: 2009-01-31
Online
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KD wrote..Whether Germany actually goes ahead and does it likely depends on whether there is a further contagion - and I think there will be. Yes, this fear of contagion, and the resultant effect on the banking elite, is the major impediment to Germany abandoning the doomed Euro. And this contagion risk is significantly amplified by the elusive derivatives house-of-cards. Of course, Germany now realizes that it is handcuffed to the moribund Euro ... as this anchor around it's neck continues to drag it down. The question is: "when will the German people finally stop this debacle?"
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Stonedog
Posts: 2080
Incept: 2008-05-29
New Jersey
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Well, it is the Prisoner's Dillemma. The first to bail will be in the best position. Germany is currently in the best position of any of the EU countries. So if they did bail out first they would cement their position as the strongest nation in Europe.
Please note that I"m not saying that there wouldn't be any pain if they did so. There would be. Their export industry would suffer enormously. However, this way they would maintain their sovereignty and they could stop with the idiotic bailouts coming out of Brussels.
Of course, the rest of the EU would be rendered instantly destitute.
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"I would characterize my professional disdain as more of a professional contempt for their [Central Banker, Banker and politician] economic and financial policies, priorities, presumptions and prescriptions." - Lauren Lyster on Capital Account for Friday June 16, 2012
"All the stimulus, the bailouts, the quantit
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Jeffex11
Posts: 28
Incept: 2011-02-28
Banned
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The move by Germany back to the Mark COULD be brilliant......IF they back the currency with something of value such as Gold.....
Then the world will beat a path to hold the Mark....and it will be the NEW currency of record for trading oil in the world....
Leaving the US fiat currency to suffer Wiemar Republic type hyperinflation .
The progressives in the US are waiting to collapse the economy and usher in a new constitution before they back a new currency with land......
The timing is critical ...if Germany draws first blood in the worlds currency market ......they may be the world new smartest in the room....the question remains however, do they have a tangible to back a new Mark with????
Either way we are headed for WW3
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Swordsman
Posts: 95
Incept: 2009-01-10
Las Cruces, New Mexico
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Quote:The timing is critical ...if Germany draws first blood in the worlds currency market ......they may be the world new smartest in the room....the question remains however, do they have a tangible to back a new Mark with????
Either way we are headed for WW3 So the smartest people in the room will start WWIII? Wish we could all be so smart.
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4596
Incept: 2011-04-27
Online
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If Germany were to leave the euro, wouldn't surprise me if it creates a war in Europe.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Pa.
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09/30/2011 National Governments Can't Be Trusted Barroso Calls for More Power for EU Institutions Quote:European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has called for more power for the EU's institutions.
European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso has said in an interview that the EU's institutions need to be strengthened to stabilize the euro zone, arguing that national governments can't be trusted to take determined action. Meanwhile, former German Finance Minister Peer Steinbrück says it's time to openly admit that Greece is practically bankrupt.... More: http://www.spiegel.de/international/euro....
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Welcome to Pottersville
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Snowman
Posts: 1798
Incept: 2009-03-09
avoiding yellow snow
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I am not convinced (if Germany gives up on the Euro) that Germany's exports will tank due to potential currency revaluation.
Firstly, much of their exports are high value goods (not just beemers) from the middle sized engineering companies who supply into large global supply chains. These are not easily replaceable to the buyers in France, UK, US, Italy, Netherlands (in that order).
Second, Germany has managed before in relatively high currency value (their DEM-USD from 1970 to 1998 varied anywhere between 3.6 to 1.7 and DEM-FRF/GBP crosses were at times also against DEM's favor), while their exports basically straight-lined growth during these "strong" periods. IN fact, Germany's fastest export growth of late comes on the back of when the EUR has been the strongest (against USD). Explanations has to do with what they are exporting.
WOuld all investors suddenly leave anything that had EURO fixed to it? I doubt it unless of course France, Italy, Netherlands also abandons the currency and then we are back to my second point.
Lastly, they can always peg their DEM can't they?
Huge disruptions to be sure, but long term could be an upside for them.
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Scottbeard
Posts: 31
Incept: 2010-01-05
UK
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Vitchilo - a war between who and who, over what, using what money to pay for the armaments?
I can see plenty of scope for more rioting when benefits get cut, but I can't see anyone driving tanks into Germany to take bailout money by force.
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Perramas
Posts: 54
Incept: 2011-01-24
Online
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I do not think we would see European countries going to war with each other if the European Union collapsed. I could see the political elites deflecting/directing the mobs anger towards the immigrants from Africa and the middle east.
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Assassination, Attack, Domestic security, Drill, Exercise, Cops, Law enforcement, Authorities, Disater assistance, Disaster management, DNDO, National prepardness, Mitigation, Prevention, Response, Recovery, Dirty bomb, Swat, Threat
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Wineaux
Posts: 533
Incept: 2009-03-23
pure Liquid pleasure
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Quote: If Germany were to leave the euro, wouldn't surprise me if it creates a war in Europe. It’s too early for this to happen. Germany would blow its own dick off if a war started. Russia would simply flip a switch cutting off the flow of gas to Germany. Germany needs an ally to hinder the Russians. If I were to speculate I would think that Germany and China would form some sort of alliance to move towards a global basket of currencies which as a result would cause fits for the US as it would destroy the dollar and thus lead us to rattling our swords. And who knows what would ensure further…..
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What wine goes with unemployment?
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Fraudster
Posts: 4173
Incept: 2011-05-10
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I read somewhere that China is slowing to about 5% GDP growth. Everyone is panicking over this? I know the meme that China needs 7% GDP growth, but nobody has ever shown the math on that one. Personally, 5% in China, is better than 0 to -X% in the US
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"Let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world." - Napoleon Bonaparte
"Circulation ceases first at the outer edges [Europe and Japan]. It will take a while yet for the decay to reach the heart [America]." - Foundation & Empire by Isaac Asimov
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Rd
Posts: 470
Incept: 2008-02-27
Long Island, NY
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Either way leaving the Euro or Bailing out they are heading for a slower economic times and unfortunately there are no real leaders in the world to get us through this. Hopefully we just fumble through the tough years and we do not head towards county/ethnic/religious wars. If the public was smart they would go after the politicians on both sides as well as the bankers.
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Degaston
Posts: 2264
Incept: 2007-07-27
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I bet that Germany starting anew the Deutsch Mark would certainly put the IMF's new plan at risk for making the 2008 "temporary" 590 billion credit lines now "perm" and getting the national parliaments of member countries (with the USA being the biggest of them) approving another 750 billion. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424....Karl, what do you think about the IMF's latest plan and all the efforts underway to get all the parliaments of member nations to approve it in early 2012? Maybe I missed your reaction on this plan and its 1.34 trillion dollar ticket price. Oh .... I did miss his reaction. As I expected ... Karl wasn't impressed by the IMF's plan. http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=1....
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3/17/2013: Bullish on nothing - 100 percent in cash.
Reason: I did miss his reaction
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Vitchilo
Posts: 4596
Incept: 2011-04-27
Online
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Yeah Germany needs an ally... Russia. And yeah it would take years for a war to erupt. But a collapse of the euro would screw most of Europe, the MSM and the elite would blame it all on Germany. Hungry and people who were stolen everything can easily be manipulated. And ``it can't happen``... remember that a very popular book was written in Europe in 1911-1912 saying that war in Europe could never happen again because they were too link economically and all a bunch of other stuff people are saying today. The book was very popular back then and a lot of people agreed with it. Well guess what, they were wrong. In The Guns of August, the author writes about that. From wiki about the reasons of WW1 : Quote:Economic miscalculation. In Tuchman's view, both European intellectuals and leaders overestimated the power of free trade. These individuals believed that the interconnection of European nations due to this trade would stop a continent-wide war from breaking out, as the economic consequences would be too great. However, this assumption was incorrect.
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"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- H.L. Mencken
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Jeffex11
Posts: 28
Incept: 2011-02-28
Banned
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Yes ..as crazy as it seems ...Germany WOULD be the smartest in the room...as war may very well be inevitable......I believe that is what they are weighing right now...can the outbreak in Europe be managed..or will it escalate in to WW3...America has no domestic capacity to respond rapidly ....the industrial base is offshore .....China will sit it out ...think it through .....Germany could be the worlds currency for oil.....with the snap of a printing press.....as long as they have something of value to back it with...
The war will break out in Greece , as the people can't get food and are broke!!! It will escalate as people scramble to just survive.
Russia will not be effected in a way as to cause it break it's supply to Germany of oil....
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Phev
Posts: 440
Incept: 2009-05-17
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i hope they do it, it would be an immediat collapse in our fix income market... And we deserve it.. Hello wineaux... We are some kind of a banana republic but we still have our grape juice... http://www.grandsbourgognes.com/les-doma....
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Ghopper
Posts: 2313
Incept: 2011-06-11
Staten Island, NY
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Better to have a strong currency than a collapsing one.
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