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| Obama And Republicans Blow Bankers, America Withers in forum [Market-Ticker]
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If
Posts: 1193
Incept: 2008-01-06
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Wouldn't this be considered financial terrroism? Aren't the banks basically saying you better let us do our business as usual or we will bring your country to financial doom?
" In a recent flurry of letters to the Basel Committee on Banking Supervision, which is in the process of setting new rules for the largest global institutions, various banking groups warn that higher capital requirements -- tantamount to putting limits on leverage -- will reduce credit availability and stunt the economy’s growth."
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I finally took the red pill. I have a lot of catching up to do. Please excuse my ignorance.
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Visualcsharp
Posts: 343
Incept: 2009-12-19
Round Rock, TX
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I wonder why it seems so few people consider that maybe growth is no longer necessary. IMO we have a huge labor oversupply problem in the world. All these efforts at stimulus, "job creation," etc. are addressing the wrong side of the equation, are they not? We don't need more supply. Things are as cheap as they've ever been when one looks at all of human history.
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Montysano
Posts: 134
Incept: 2009-02-23
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In 2004, the SEC (at Hank Paulson's behest) relaxed the leverage limits, and banks quickly leveraged up from the 10:1 level that had been the norm for years, up to 30:1 and beyond.
Just to be sure I'm clear, KD: you oppose any and all unsecured leverage, even a return to the 10:1 level?
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"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." -- Arthur Jensen, "Network"
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Genesis
Posts: 130804
Incept: 2007-06-26
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That is correct.
Secured leverage is a function of business risk tolerance. A bank should be able to use it as it sees fitl the risk of being too aggressive is immediate closure and liquidation of the firm if the positions go underwater (E.g. the alleged "covered" or "Secured" risk becomes uncovered.)
We should not prevent risk-taking, only systemic risk, extortion and blackmail.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Montysano
Posts: 134
Incept: 2009-02-23
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Visualcsharp wrote..I wonder why it seems so few people consider that maybe growth is no longer necessary. I'm no economist, but it seems to me that in a fiat monetary system, where money comes into existence through the creation of debt, constant growth is hardwired into the system. I'm not disagreeing with you; at some point, growth will necessarily stop, due to one of several possible factors, e.g. depletion of natural resources.
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"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide, and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." -- Arthur Jensen, "Network"
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Genesis
Posts: 130804
Incept: 2007-06-26
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No it's not Monty.
You lend me $100 @ 10% interest for one year. I now have the $100, but the $10 in interest does not exist where I can access it (today.)
However, tomorrow I perform some work. It doesn't matter who I perform it FOR, just that I perform it. We'll make it easy - I clean your disgusting bathroom in exchange for $10 of your money.
I now have the interest and principal and you get paid.
Note that nothing was said about creating anything new; if I perform work for you then you must transfer some of your accumulated wealth to me in order to pay for it. The effect is a shift of wealth from you to me in exchange for my labor. In effect the interest charge is a CALL option on my future labor output.
The amount of credit and currency (they're fungible) must balance against production. That's the function of the monetary authority. The economy is in balance if MV = PQ; if "M" or "V" increases then "P" or "Q" must increase.
The introduction of intentional credit inflation causes upward pressure on P and Q. But since the increase in "M" (or "V") is not caused by an increase in actual economic output (Q) it can reflect in only one place - P. The intent is to try to force "Q" higher, but it doesn't work - we know this through the more than 30 years of history.
The Federal Reserve Act prohibits this action but there is no penalty clause and as such it is violated with wild abandon.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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With One Dollar are you advocating that banks retain one dollar of capital for each dollar of credit card debt outstanding? Each unsecured line of credit?
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Genesis
Posts: 130804
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Yes.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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That means we're going back to the stone age. How about we just do risk based capital and have the regulators do their damn jobs. This suggestion of one dollar of capital goes the way to me of Dodd Frank. Oh we don't enforce the regulations so everything blows up. Well just write more regulations???
Nope the answer is to put Glass Steagal back in effect. To go into all banks and mark everything to market and shut down the ones that are in negative capital positions. There will be more banks. If bankers thought they didn't have a get of jail free card they'd make prudent decisions.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Z_trader
Posts: 12
Incept: 2010-08-04
Huntington Beach, CA
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Until the people take to the streets, as the Viet Nam War protesters did, nothing will change in this country.
Americans need to get off the couch, and demand change. WHY ARE THERE NO PROTESTS? As the bankers rob us blind?
Now we think we can change things by voting. No way the system is to corrupt.
Am ready to hit the streets, but can not find a rally to join. Sad state for a country to be in.
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Striped-pad
Posts: 70
Incept: 2009-03-15
UK
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I notice that Bloomberg's editorial is recommending yet another donation by politicians of taxpayers' money to the existing banks. ("Now I really mean it this time - this is definitely the last one.") What's wrong with closing the banks down? Yes, it will seriously suck for a while, but it's better than throwing good money after bad. At most governments should protect the depositors (preferably not quite to 100%, so they have an incentive to be careful in future), but another recapitalisation of private banks by governments is yet another free gift to senior bondholders.
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Rjazz117
Posts: 17803
Incept: 2007-09-11
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No protests?
Where have you been looking?
They are practically a daily occurrence.
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“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
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Asimov
Posts: 104068
Incept: 2007-08-26
East Tennessee Eastern Time
Online
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Quote:No protests?
Where have you been looking? The MSM?
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It's justifiably immoral to deal morally with an immoral entity. If you trade based on what other people say, you will lose money. Especially what I say. I won't be held responsible. Festina lente.
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Otiswild
Posts: 5627
Incept: 2009-03-09
Inside you, the force is!
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bilge
Reason: beat me to it ;)
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Rjazz117
Posts: 17803
Incept: 2007-09-11
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MSM...reporting news...? 
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“To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical.” Thomas Jefferson
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Genesis
Posts: 130804
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Quote:That means we're going back to the stone age. Bull****. Borrowing to consume should be expensive. Borrowing to build productive things (e.g. a factory) should be rated on the risk and priced accordingly. It should NEVER be cheaper to borrow than the addition of inflation and GDP advancement. One Dollar of Capital simply says that you must get actual investor money to fund all unsecured loans.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Steelpiston71
Posts: 4868
Incept: 2007-09-05
Michigan
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"That means we're going back to the stone age."
If you mean where people save until they can buy something without a loan from a bank levered 1:1 or worse, then there are plenty of us living in the stone age.
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"We have resolution authority under Frank/Dodd... How about we USE IT?" Karl Denninger, 10/07/10 on the Dylan Ratigan Show, MSNBC.
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Yep Stone Age. Hell I bet even Barney Rubble had a credit card. One dollar of capital would bring the economy down to about 1970 levels of GDP probably. And it's totally not needed if bankers and regulators do their job. If a banker ****s up shut him down. But one dollar of capital for each dollar lent assumes a situation where every unsecured loan goes bad. That won't happen. With a good regulator you'd shut banks down when their insolvent and it's much the same as one dollar of capital in that the banker is responsible. Our current system of privatized profits and socialized losses has gotta go I will agree with that. I'm just not ready to shut down the economy.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Genesis
Posts: 130804
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Quote:But one dollar of capital for each dollar lent assumes a situation where every unsecured loan goes bad. No it doesn't. The investor is the one entitled to profit from good loans. But unsecured lending is by definition dangerous. As soon as you permit it to happen it will be gamed. It always is, and yet the mathematics guarantee that at some point a HUGE percentage of these loans MUST DEFAULT.Reality is this: There should be very little unsecured lending in a properly-functioning economy and monetary system.MOST lending should be secured. 1970? Bah. Right now there is some $800 billion of credit card lending out. That's all. It actually DECREASED by some $27 billion over the last 12 months (outstanding amount.) Did the economy go back to 1970s levels? NO! Let's say that this proposal cuts the unsecured (credit card) lending in HALF. Where does that take us? To 1995. You're nuts dude. More to the point - that's wrong with most consumption being paid for with excess funds from production? You know, what we used to call current account savings? I lived that way all the way through most of the 1980s in adulthood and still do today, and in the 1980s I was NOT "well off".What "one dollar of capital" would do is make bull**** like naked credit defaults swaps INSTANTLY unprofitable.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Gruffner
Posts: 3
Incept: 2009-01-04
East Brunswick, NJ
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The other day you posted that we were almost at the debt ceiling limit again. How can we borrow this money now and pay for it later without having to go through the whole debt ceiling raising much earlier than planned? Does Obama want to have that happen again right before the election, or sooner?
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Goldbrick
Posts: 2946
Incept: 2008-01-23
Indiana
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Quote:...doing so will require that Bernanke be removed from office and the banksters stripped of their political power through whatever means are necessary... Absolutely. There needs to be some kind of literal or figurative "night of the long knives" wherein the banksters are all taken out at once, so to speak.
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"The higher I go, the crookeder it gets." --Michael Corleone
"Instead of cursing the darkness, light a CONgressman."
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Steelpiston71
Posts: 4868
Incept: 2007-09-05
Michigan
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Gruff, it was passed in tranches, 1st 400B went up real fast to make up for the fuzzy accounting in place in May when we actually passed the debt ceiling somewhat stealthily. Another 500B was granted to day if I'm reading things correctly, as we had about 45B left just a few days ago. After that 500B, there should still be 500B left.
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"We have resolution authority under Frank/Dodd... How about we USE IT?" Karl Denninger, 10/07/10 on the Dylan Ratigan Show, MSNBC.
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Gruffner
Posts: 3
Incept: 2009-01-04
East Brunswick, NJ
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Thanks, Steelpiston71. It still seems to me that if we blow an extra 470B that wasn't planned for, it will push up the date when we once again run out. I know congress is not going to pass this whole thing, but if they did, I wonder if we would then run up against the debt limit again before the 2012 elections. Not to mention, if the economy really tanks here, it will also reduce expected income and increase expenses...
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Gen it cuts the unsecured lending to zero. ABSO****INGLUTELY ZERO. There isn't one collective dollar of capital in the entire banking system. They are all ****ing broke. Every last large publicly traded bank truly has a negative capital position.
And if you would institute one dollar of capital for each unsecured loan you will kill the economy. Where are they going to get the capital? And they'll pressure everyone t pay back their loans. Those people will then either default and the banks go deeper in the whole or they buckle down and pay the debt off and GDP shrinks even farther.
The answer lies in prudent bank regulation. PROMPT CORRECTIVE ACTION. If Sheila and others had done their job we'd have much less mess now.
While I wholly agree with much of your solutions to bank problems such as bringing back Glass Steagal and putting derivatives on exchanges, marketing securities to market, etc. I'm gonna disagree with one dollar of capital.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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