| User Info
| Dispelling Popular Delusions: TARP And Balance Sheets in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Soar07
Posts: 353
Incept: 2009-05-04
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Time to put the USA first! Stop Globalization, Illegal Immigration, Outsourcing. Buy American. Enforce the rule of law. Drop kick political correctness!
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Irishblues
Posts: 318
Incept: 2010-12-18
Wisconsin
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The other claim underlying the success of TARP is "all the money the government made." Karl, you need to shred that piece as well.
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Soar07
Posts: 353
Incept: 2009-05-04
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When Europe blows up how does it impact us?
The other question or idea I am starting to have is that as we see this sovereign debt crisis gaining speed, don't equities with solid financial statements start to become attracive? Some of how this has played out this week is starting to make me reconsider some of my views.
If Govts in Euro and US pursue endless debt, and currency devalution, people still need to eat. Food, Ag seem logical here. Yes debt unwinding will be deflatinary, but could the the pursuit of real earnings and cash flow not lead money to run from all sovereign debt towards stocks?
Just wondering outloud
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Time to put the USA first! Stop Globalization, Illegal Immigration, Outsourcing. Buy American. Enforce the rule of law. Drop kick political correctness!
Reason: Added
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Docj
Posts: 1012
Incept: 2009-09-10
Duck & Cover
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This nonsense will end. Eventually.
Just not in a way that leaves any of us (unless you're among those on Benron's speed dial list) with anything more than the clothes on our back.
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The preservation of liberty depends upon the intellectual and moral character of the people. As long as knowledge and virtue are diffused generally among the body of a nation it is impossible they should be enslaved. - John Adams
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Scrood
Posts: 4111
Incept: 2008-05-17
There's Gold in Them Thar Hills!
Online
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For readers without a trading background, you might want to explain what XLF represents.
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CTRL-GALT-DELETE
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Blattdorf
Posts: 20
Incept: 2011-03-06
Warsaw
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Gen, all of the problems you write about can easily be solved, and yet a certain group of people would sooner cause the end of modern Western civilization than maybe stop being so destructively greedy. How the hell do you cope with all of this? If I were an alcoholic, I'd drink myself silly and make long tirades about how them *******s are ruining this country (actually, your country, but Europe is going to get nailed hard, too).
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Sierraboy
Posts: 1452
Incept: 2007-06-26
San Diego, CA
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Soar07
Posts: 353
Incept: 2009-05-04
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If you say refuse to buy bonds, that leaves stocks, commodities, and cash. But, we know all cash is fiat, hence that leaves the other two. I think this explains some of why equities aren't completely tanking? The other logical choice is Gold and PMs.
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Time to put the USA first! Stop Globalization, Illegal Immigration, Outsourcing. Buy American. Enforce the rule of law. Drop kick political correctness!
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Judgesmales
Posts: 3334
Incept: 2008-02-05
Las Vegas
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Blattdorf wrote..Gen, all of the problems you write about can easily be solved, and yet a certain group of people would sooner cause the end of modern Western civilization than maybe stop being so destructively greedy Blattdorf, by a "certain group of people," do you mean bankers? Please specify.
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Don't forget: Panic is also an animal spirit, and it spreads much faster than optimism. Be careful what you wish for, Bernanke.
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Bluebird
Posts: 1398
Incept: 2008-05-02
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Actually, hasn't the TARP worked well for the banksters and the mega-speculators? They have had 3 years of additional gambling via the TARP. Of course it will end, when the Ponzi implodes.
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Soar07
Posts: 353
Incept: 2009-05-04
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Lying about valuations is everywhere in Financials and .GOV, so what other choices are there for $?
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Time to put the USA first! Stop Globalization, Illegal Immigration, Outsourcing. Buy American. Enforce the rule of law. Drop kick political correctness!
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Blattdorf
Posts: 20
Incept: 2011-03-06
Warsaw
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@Judgesmales
Mainly the bankers and the government, though I'm probably leaving out someone. Well, a lot of people.
My written English isn't as fluid as it used to be, so I apologize in advance for being incoherent.
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8894
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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My thoughts are that the outright gift of money from the Federal Reserve thru the discount window that were then used by the banks to buy risk free treasuries did more than anything to improve the health of the banking industry. So the Fed gives them the money for free to buy something they get a return on. Who subsidized this? Themortgagekids and every other child in the US. And the banks still aren't healthy. If they had to actually mark to market they're still broke I bet. Another pet peave of mine is the lack of a market for CDS and the way that allows banks to******customers.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2694
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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Quote:Of course the argument will be made that the market is often wrong about valuation and this may, in the current case, be true. The problem is that there is no way to judge the validity of this argument in the present tense nor on a forward basis since these allegedly-unobservable marks remain claimed but not proved up - since they don't have to be. Actually if someone thought the valuations were real, you would see buyout offers... So in essence there is a way to judge the validity.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2694
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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Witch hunt begins...
(Reuters) - The U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) has asked rating agency Standard & Poor's (S&P) to disclose which employees knew of its decision to downgrade U.S. debt before it was announced last week, the Financial Times said, citing people familiar with the matter.
"However, the securities regulator is not aware of a leak from an S&P insider, nor was it aware of an aberrational trade, the paper said."
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Janedeaux
Posts: 287
Incept: 2009-09-16
Mississippi
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Quote:Financial Select Sector SPDR Fund (the Fund) seeks to provide investment results that correspond to the price and yield performance of the Financial Select Sector of the S&P 500 Index (the Index). The Index includes companies from industries, such as diversified financial services, insurance, commercial banks, capital markets, real estate investment trusts (REITs), consumer finance, thrifts and mortgage finance, and real estate management and development. The Fund utilizes a passive or indexing investment approach to attempt to approximate the investment performance of the Index. The Fund’s investment advisor is SSgA Funds Management, Inc.
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A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.-anon
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Blurtman
Posts: 563
Incept: 2009-01-24
Banned
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This, and the lack of prosecutions of criminal banksters, has destroyed the trust that Americans might have had in the USA. Now it is clearly in your face - the system is based upon fraud, and there is a two-tiered justice system in the country. But you obey the law, you hear.
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I have a reading comprehension problem and the owner banned me for repeatedly displaying it after being warned.
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8894
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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What the ****? S&P news of downgrade is being investigated by SEC. WTF - insider trading??? Jeezus they ****ing told you it was coming. And what if you knew it was coming and went short bonds??? Well I imagine you're still smarting from that Chrysler Building in your ass. The play was short stocks and the downgrade had nothing to do with any particular company. I demand an investigation into who ordered the investigation. This is like Nixon using the IRS to harass his enemies. **** this whole mess. Just take the SEC outside and shoot them one at a time until you get the info you want. Hopefully none of them have any info and you can shoot em all and put some new people in their that might do their job.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Flappingeagle
Posts: 1248
Incept: 2011-04-14
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@Bert - It is interesting that the SEC wants to know this, especially in light of the fact that anyone in CONgress who knew about it was free to trade on it legally.
It is ALL one big steaming pile of putrid ****.
I know many of you might disagree with this but something I never see mentioned when people speak of how we've wasted three years is that the middle and lower classes have been really set up for a thorough screwing, much worse than they would have gotten three years ago.
Not only have people been drawing down what reserves they had for three years, many of them also have exhausted the unemployment they were due as well and are now left with nothing but food stamps.
If the system would have been allowed to crash in 08, then the people could have used their reserves and unemployment to ride it out until things got better. While a lot of negative claims were made about the 99 weeks of unemployment, the real screaming should be about how the government wasted the 99 weeks of unemployment. Those 99 weeks of payments would have been great for people IF, the economy was resetting from letting the banks crash.
Now we are where the system will most likely crash and the government's ability to pay to help people out is even more limited. If we would have done this right, what we paid out would have gone to good use to keep more people solvent, instead it is just gone.
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Here are my predictions for everyone to see: S&P 500 at 320, DOW at 2200, Gold $300/oz, and Corn $2/bu. "You can't build a house of cards on a shaking table." - Tony Johns The January 2015 AMZN put at $130 (cost $4.25) will be a winner.
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Etz
Posts: 13922
Incept: 2007-06-26
LA
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I believe it was you who coined the proper term at one point,
FASB: Fraud As a Standard Board.
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Legal chicanery and beneficent darkness are the banker's stoutest allies - F.Pecora.
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Cobra2411
Posts: 10515
Incept: 2007-06-26
Philly P.a.
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Love the dive reference... Had a buddy a while ago tell me about a guy so narced out he was chewing on my buddies fin thinking it was a cheeseburger. His reg was just dangling and free flowing like mad...
Me thinks we're at crush depth on many of these banks... Funny problem is that when you get down to crush depth it's not an exact number that pushes you over the edge that you can stay above and be ok. Nope, one second you're fine and the next... *POOF!*
Nice to see it laid out so all can understand that the "fix" has been nothing but smoke and mirrors. Once again, good job.
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Government: A device that allows you to get blind ass drunk and your children get the hangover.
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Bertdilbert
Posts: 2694
Incept: 2008-12-22
CA
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Flappingeagle
Those are all great points on the unemployment benefits void when the reset comes.
RE SEC, the government has to make S&P look bad as a warning to the other agencies. It is all bull****.
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Dear Euroland: Relax, Germany has a plan for your money!
Political Capital Defined: We are out of money but will tax our citizens for whatever it takes to "SAVE" the Euro.
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Djggml
Posts: 84
Incept: 2007-06-27
CT
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Great Ticker. Thanks Karl
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3617
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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I had to look up to see if Kanjorski was still in office, but it appears he got beat. I wonder if he would have favored fraud if the Republicans had won the White House?
The problem here is they can only sweep this under the rug if private credit can significantly inflate. The other problem is that the bankers have looted another $200 billion or so out of the banks since TARP was done, using phony profits as the excuse. We are going to get the bill on this.
You ever noticed how they pump a stock and say this is the markets verdict, but when it is their stock, the market is wrong? How much real capital did any of these banks have? I don't believe they started with 1/3 of what they lost and we are in a situation where it is really difficult to pull the plunger off the wet marble floor. Bernanke has screwed what was left of the system and they aren't going to be able to suck air through such a vacuum sufficient to reflate these dead assets.
Plus, those running the banks are of such marginal morality that any thing they can even dream of calling profit has to go for bonuses. Guys like Dimon learned from the champion of sucking bonuses out of companies, Sandy Weill. Think he left that part out of his job? Goldman has the inside scoop with all their porch monkeys in government, but you can only suck so much out of fiction before it runs dry.
I really don't believe anyone in power understands the problem. The problem is the suction of credit default is 10 times the pressure the Fed and Government can afford to apply. If it appeared there was going to be a mass bailout, I don't know if anyone would keep paying. But, the Fed doesn't lend money in the private sector and if they did, they too would have to make good loans or go broke. Plus, the government can't follow Krugman's ideas or they would not be taken seriously and the financial system would collapse in reverse.
You have had company ringing this bell Karl. I tell everyone these bastards are all broke and any story to the contrary is merely to keep stealing money. Is there any one of them you would have much more than your spare change for convenience on deposit? They aren't even talking about WFC right now. They ate their own CFC.
One day we are going to wake up and hear that the stock market has fallen over onto the HFT's and their brokers. Or that the buildings that house the computers have been hit by some mad mothers(MF's) against organized theft and the market is going to read zero. Of course, they won't have to mark to market. Only we have to do that.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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