@86

The risk to the GOP is not holding firm enough. The bad economy will be blamed on both, but the POTUS will take the bulk of it. Budget discipline will keep the center-right coalesced around the GOP, rather than splintering it off like it did in 1992, and 1996.

He can force hard cuts with the debt limit. The trick is to only raise it enough to get him to the next fight. This way, he retains leverage. Raising it too far removes him from the center of the fight.

I doubt unauthorized debt would be ruled valid. I also don't think it would get that far.

Only Mrs E and I can authorize debt for us. If you go to the bank and take out a loan in my name, that is fraud. You have no authority to do so, unless I issue a power-of-attorney.

I am not obligated to pay debts you originate.

Obama and Timmy lack the authority to authorize debt. That is Boehner's job.

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IMHO they've already given "the markets" more than sufficient "guidance" (such as this debt comment from Boner) that if in the 11th hour nothing is done, they will raise the ceiling and turn on the spigot. Given all that "guidance" ... just seems to me that's what they'll do at 2 minutes to mid-night. Plan accordingly.

That will be announced at 3:30 EST on Friday after the market tanks all week long.

Got lube?

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Yea, and when it was 300:1 against TARP, they just shut off the fax machines.

It's different this time. When the greatest financial terrorist in history threaten Congress with tanks in the street in order to pass TARP, the pinch the people felt was insignificant and the focus was solely aimed at replacing the lame duck administration. Fast forward 3+ years the pain and suffering are immense for those who have been unemployed for a long period of time and for everyone it is now the main focus and problem which needs resolution. Even the MSM admits it's been a tepid recovery when we know here is been a gigantic fail. People want a solution already and are going to hold the critters to account next election if there is not one. Heck the idea of the Tea Partiers winning office was the start. The 535 are listening, we got their attention last election. They want to stay in power because it's a comfortable financial life.

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I doubt unauthorized debt would be ruled valid. I also don't think it would get that far.

Geithner is an employee of the corporation. The corporation is responsible for the action of the employee. The corporation got the money.

Congress would have to deem the debt as valid or lose in court. This is not even debatable.

Eric Holder will not prosecute. The treasurer may have other immunities.

Geithner can issue debt at will without authorization. Nobody is going to do anything about it.

Obama and Geithner are Hitler and Goebels when it comes to what is lawful and what isn't. Hopefully calling the Obamaites Nazi's won't get me kicked off another site, but clearly Timmy has no regard for the law.

The 14th amendment was to make everyone born in the US citizens of the US and to make those citizens liable for the debts incurred. The Confederacy could have claimed they didn't incur the debt. The slaves could have claimed they didn't incur the debts, let the damn Yankees pay them.

One of the things many of us weren't taught was that Lincoln prosecuted that war without Congress present for a good part of it. I would suspect he might have borrowed some money and the NY bankers who hoodwinked the south into deciding to rebel may have dug their teeth into the country. Post war government pretty much screwed the country. If this debt wasn't issued by acts of Congress, which I suspect, all Americans could have disputed it.

The question isn't about this debt, but what are they going to do about it? $200 billion is chicken feed. The Republicans aren't going to raise taxes and the Democrats won't cut spending. There isn't a solution that doesn't include both.

The other questions is, how did the budget get so big in the first place? Unemployment claims aren't over $100 billion of it and I doubt the Fed's share of that is anywhere near that. The current account has gone up over $1 trillion since Obama came in. It took him 2 years to repeal the Reagan revolution and get us back to Jimmy Carter's spending spiral.

Social Security is self supporting. Medicare and Medicaid aren't and can't be fixed in the current form. We can get out of these wars. We can quit funding research on the sex habits of house flies or what ever nonsense they put up money for. We can quit bailing out bankers, subsidizing home ownership and cut out all the Federal money that dictates the actions of state governments.

Mannfm11

What I think should happen is this. The budget passed in April which carries us though the end of September. This has already been agreed to so why hold it up? Therefore what the republicans should do is approve a debt increase only to carry us through the end of September.

Next they should put the President on notice that there will be no approval of a continuing resolution to extend the budget and they are up against the debt limit. This forces the budget and debt limit together and past agreed spending is taken care of like it should be.

Then remind the president "We Won".

Once the FSA gets wind of what real change will mean, the phones will be 300:1 against cutting jack.

"Yes I'm a proud member of the Teaparty, but don't you dare TOUCH my granny's Medicare!" *After all, you don't really expect ME to have to take care of her do ya?*

Wineaux wrote..

One possible way this stops is that ALL of you, your facebook friends, neighbors, and likeminded co-workers start/continue to fax your congresscritter repeatedly stating you raise the debt ceiling and you’re fired. You don’t cut spending, you’re fired.

Do you understand that most of these chumps voted for the Taxpayer Ass******Program, and were returned to office?

Bertdilbert wrote..

A judge could say pay it *******, perhaps even issuing a legal order to raise the debt ceiling in order to print more money, since the debt ceiling is self induced and the Fed can monetize.

There's already precedent. In 1988 (IIRC) a federal judge in Kansas City under his own authority ordered a tax increase be imposed on the taxpayers of the Kansas City public school system (IIRC). I'm pretty sure the sheeple complied and coughed up the dough.

There's a bumper crop of black-robed thugs nowadays who wouldn't think twice about doing this on a national scale.

I don't know why, but I'm reminded of a chewing out that a judge gave a Police force over here in the 1970's.

He was mightily*****ed off at the cases the Police were bringing to Court, so suspended the session, and summoned the Chief Constable to appear in the dock.

What he told the Chief Constable was this:

"When this Country becomes a Police State, it will be *ME* telling *YOU*, and not *YOU* telling *ME*. This nonsense stops right now and I don't want anything similar to appear in *MY COURT* ever again!"

He was not wrong.

Without the judges, there can be no Police State.

eta: and to get around this 'inconvenience', on the spot fines were introduced (completely illegally), so as not to***** off any more judges.

What I want to know is this - about 2 years ago CONgress passed an 800 billion stimulus act. Supposedly, as of May, the money was all spent. SO...WHY doesn't the deficit drop 400-800 billion all by itself ? Was there a self-renewing clause in that legislation ?

We all know once CONgress spends on something it continues to perpetuate, but this bill was "sold" as a one-time shot. And yes, I know they lie about everything, but why has no one anywhere mentioned this ?

Tesla, the federal spending we have now is ON TOP of the stimulus.

They doubled welfare spending when they passed the first Obummerbudget.

Mo, that doesn't change the "fact" that the stimulus legislation has expired (AFAIK) and that spending, if true, must necessarily contract.

If it's not, and since we also haven't had a budget since 2009, then where's the money going ?

Tesla, a good portion of the stimulus money (at least half) went to state and loco governments so they could keep their bezzle going for another couple years. Then you had $50K and $250K checks being sent to black and native american 'farmers' discriminated against by the USDA and stuff like that. It all went into the coffers of Obama's FSA constituencies via their not-for-profit rackets in the poverty industry.

The 2009 budget, however, continues to this day and did things like double the Head Start budget so blacks get free child care.

That doesn't answer my question. The stimulus bill was not part of the 2009 budget. The stimulus money in that separate appropriations bill "supposedly" ran out. Why has federal spending not decreased simply because the appropriations ran out ? I don't know about your state, Mo, but mine is not seeing any more stimulus in the just-started fiscal year, ergo the money used last year is no longer coming. So why do the federal expenditures not reflect that fact ?????????????

Anybody ?