Market Ticker Forums
Detailed market commentary at The Market Ticker and Ticker Classics (The Year 2012 In Review)
Donations accepted; we offer GOLD ACCESS for enhanced privileges. T-Shirts, caps, coffee mugs? Click here.
BlogTalkRadio - Mondays at 3:30 Central - Yes, TickerGuy has a radio show (kinda)
Rss Icon RSS available You are not signed on; if you are a visitor please register for a free account!
Sponsored Advertising
To remove advertising from your display upgrade to Gold Donor status
Comments on Did Treasury Just Strategically (Intentionally) Default?
User: Not logged on
Top Forum Top Login Control Panel FAQ Register Logout
Showing Page 3 of 5  First12345Last
User Info Did Treasury Just Strategically (Intentionally) Default? in forum [Market-Ticker]
R2judge
Posts: 576
Incept: 2008-04-13
Green
Burbank CA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
"I would NOT want to be reliant on a government handout at this point. They are going to default like crazy on your ass."

Is there anything one can be reliant on, anymore? Someone created a 600 trillion dollar derivatives bubble.

Wages can be dramatically cut.
The FDIC could be dropped and depositors left on their own.
The money supply can be dramatically inflated, destroying the value of savings.
Gold profits can be taxed at 90%.
You can be screwed any which way you can turn, no matter how well you IMAGINE you have protected yourself from whatever is coming.
Agau
Posts: 4939
Incept: 2010-06-04

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
The endgame will be in the Fed getting Treasury to hold the bag.

Figure out the mechanism for that and trade accordingly
Zappafan
Posts: 1801
Incept: 2007-11-30
Green
Atlanta
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Awells:

then the payroll tax cut makes it necessary that SSA redeems some current bonds from the trust fund and spends it,

there are no "bonds" in the trust fund. Show me a CUSIP. It's "non-marketable" debt, which is a fancy way of saying its an IOU. To cover the gap between SS revenues and expenditures, treasury has to borrow by issuing good old US treasury bonds.

Now treasury has been apparently paying interest on the money they've "borrowed" from SS. What Publius has uncovered is that they missed an interest payment.

You can argue about whether or not this is a default (I'd say not), but the more interesting thing to me is that it shows how the US Gov will handle things in a crisis. They will prioritize and give seniority to bondholders (in this case treasury holders) over intra-governmental obligations, which can be weaseled out of in a pinch.

If you are under the age of, say 65 and were counting on seeing any money from SS, plan accordingly.

----------
The alternative to not borrowing from a counterfeiting cartel is to be priced
out by those who do

Swrichmond
Posts: 327
Incept: 2009-02-12
A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Fellow Travelers:

The flashes of light and other visual and audible artifacts you are experiencing are evidence that we have passed the event horizon and are now entering the actual vortex.

I've been waiting for this for the past twenty years, ever since I began reading and understanding the Austrian School. It makes perfect sense. The status quo will do everything you can imagine, and lots of things you can't, to preserve the status quo. They have all the power, but they are out of money. When the power structure that supports the status quo comes to grips with the fact that there is no solution, the power structure will abandon them and so the power will evaporate. That is our moment. Until then, got popcorn?
Snooze
Posts: 2828
Incept: 2007-07-09
Gold
florida
Online
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
When I first learned of the SS Trust funds scam back in the early 80's, I pointed this out to our local congresscritter and suggested that a viable alternative to this fiction would be to fold Fannie and Freddie into the SS Administration and then use SS taxes as a capital base for home ownership.

The funds would earn a real rate of return, The taxpayers would recieve an immediate benefit for their contributions and the portfolio would grow with leverage in proportion to population.

Of couse, this was before I fully understood the predatory nature of the Fed and the whole banking system. They don't want answers. They want desperate people who are willing debt slaves.

----------
Wealth is found in the warmth of the sun, in the coolness of moist soil, in the taste of fresh air, and in the pulse of your heart. Plant a seed and harvest your riches.
Wartelle6
Posts: 141
Incept: 2010-05-25

south Louisiana
Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Do people really forget why SS was put in place? Were all of those who were poor and hungry during the GD just getting what they deserved?

When people in power loot the system, it is the people who have just been trying to get by whose get hit the hardest.

It should have been run as safety-net/insurance type of program. SS should have been to provide a basic income, for those who needed it.

You buy all sorts of insurance and don't expect to recover the cost of your premium.
Workerbee
Posts: 1398
Incept: 2009-03-18
Silver
* Winter is Coming *
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
This **** is so fascinating.
It's way above my head, but I can almost grasp this convoluted accounting crap....

I appreciate when you guys boil it down to a 8th grade level.

If you can strip it down to a 5th grade level, I just might get it.

smiley

----------
Prepare for Our Valley Forge
*~* Appeal to Heaven *~*
...that those "who having no appeal on earth to right them, they are left to the only remedy in such cases, an appeal to heaven." ~John Locke
Genesis
Posts: 130750
Incept: 2007-06-26
Admin A True American Patriot!
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
OK, that's easy.

Treasury owed a coupon payment to the trust fund on the 30th.
They didn't make the payment.

Kinda like not paying your car payment, yanno, except that the retirees haven't (yet) shown up to repossess the Treasury building.

----------
I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Wartelle6
Posts: 141
Incept: 2010-05-25

south Louisiana
Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
For those who find the thought of the elderly eating pet food so funny...

I read a lot of bluster about how no one feels sorry for those depending on the system. Do you feel the same way about all of the hard-working people who will have no job when the money those on SS spend goes away?

How funny will it be when these people, young and old, healthy and sick are on the streets begging for food?

Maybe you can cheer them up with the knowledge that they are being kept "safe"...by the War on Drugs, War on Terrorism, War in Iraq, War in Afghanistan, War in Pakistan, War in Libya.

After all, a nation must have priorities and the Constitution is OK with Billions each month for war.
Scotthcannon
Posts: 215
Incept: 2009-12-26
Green
PA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
The fact of the matter is that no one should be cheering any of this because it is just plain SAD!! For all!!

----------
It is all about "checks and balances","Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” John Adams
Janedeaux
Posts: 287
Incept: 2009-09-16
Green
Mississippi
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
My question.........how does SS payments compare in total payments to the welfare state? If you add SS, SSI, etc. to welfare monthly payments, food stamps, section 8 housing, etc. it would seem that welfare is the greater outlay. Somehow it seems wrong to deny SS and pay all these "slugs" who are 3rd generation welfare.

----------
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.-anon


Larryl
Posts: 50
Incept: 2011-06-26

Pittsburgh, PA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
The U.S. should simply issue $4 trillion in dollars to repay the intergovernmental debt. The money could be used to redeem the lousy "non-marketable" securities. The money could be issued debt free.
Workerbee
Posts: 1398
Incept: 2009-03-18
Silver
* Winter is Coming *
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
So did Timmy just prove Social Security is not subject to 14th Amendment?

He's has put the validity of the public debt in question by not paying the coupon due on Social Security because doing so would have caused us to breach the debt ceiling.

(Yes, I am Captain Obvious)

They did the same **** with Obamacare: it wasn't a tax until it was.

Could someone make this come back to bite them in the ass?

I mean they HAVE opened this door.....

----------
Prepare for Our Valley Forge
*~* Appeal to Heaven *~*
...that those "who having no appeal on earth to right them, they are left to the only remedy in such cases, an appeal to heaven." ~John Locke
1lumpor2
Posts: 2649
Incept: 2011-05-01
Green

Banned
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Wartelle6, you know why SS was put into place? So FDR could add a new tax onto the people and not call it a tax.

----------
-- Done
Anti
Posts: 4295
Incept: 2007-10-09
Silver
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Snooze, That is a good idea - it would have solved and prevented so many problems. Guys on GS scale running a public utility may have some political pressure but no personal interest in blowing a bubble to garner a giant paydays.

It would have avoided the problems with investing that stuff in equities and so on.

Snooze for Congress!

----------
Health is better than health insurance
http://gerson.org/
Over the past 60 years, thousands of people have used the Gerson Therapy to recover from so-called “incurable” diseases such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease and arthritis.
Mayorquimby
Posts: 13909
Incept: 2008-09-18
Green
The Archaic Past
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
If they get the $2.4 Trillion increase in the debt ceiling we might make it through the election cycle (which is their intent in all likelihood). . But the big cuts ARE coming.

----------
They who wish to hurt you, work within the law.
- Morrissey

Gold is theft.
Jwm_in_sb
Posts: 1041
Incept: 2009-04-16
Gold
California Desert
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
The endgame will be in the Fed getting Treasury to hold the bag.

FigThe endgame will be in the Fed getting Treasury to hold the bag.


That's what I think as well.


Ktrosper
Posts: 1500
Incept: 2010-04-06
Silver
ft collins co
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Wart wrote..
When people in power loot the system, it is the people who have just been trying to get by whose get hit the hardest.


For many, "just trying to get by" can be translated to "living one notch above their means for their entire lives"... Which is to say, they blew their money on things they wanted and didn't save a ****ing cent for retirement.

I grew up watching my folks do it. Almost every damn friend I have watched their folks do it. Hell, my generation started off doing it but we're in the midst of learning a pretty valuable lesson about living that way.

Seems to me, many folks retiring now drawing SS as their only means of survival didn't bother to do the damn math on the ponzi.

----------
The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates
The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero
I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
Vache
Posts: 68
Incept: 2011-04-15

Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Is there any way they could have paid and have it not be reflected on that balance sheet? Is there any sort of accounting tricks they could have done to not go over the debt ceiling? Is there any way to verify if payment actually occurred or not, regardless of what the sheet says?
Icanhasbailout
Posts: 9939
Incept: 2009-03-10
Green A True American Patriot!
Imaginationland
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
The fact of the matter is that no one should be cheering any of this because it is just plain SAD!! For all!!


It's less sad in the long run than a continuation of the present state of affairs. Everyone should be cheering the end of a corrupt system no matter the pain it brings, because without it there can be no rebirth and no positive future to look forward to.

----------
Scotthcannon
Posts: 215
Incept: 2009-12-26
Green
PA
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
What is sad is how we got here and the fact that 95% of the people have no clue what is going on. I agree the sooner the better, but it is going to be much worse than what I beleive most think even those who get it. Think of Greece with the avg person owning two guns like we have here.

----------
It is all about "checks and balances","Power must be opposed to power, and interest to interest,” John Adams
Ktrosper
Posts: 1500
Incept: 2010-04-06
Silver
ft collins co
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Quote:
Think of Greece with the avg person owning two guns like we have here.

lol. ya, disarm law-abiding citizens... That'll make things go much smoother.

----------
The unexamined life is not worth living.-Socrates
The only stable state is the one in which all men are equal before the law.-Aristotle
Liberty exists now in the spaces government has not yet chosen to occupy.-Doc Zero
I anticipate that 10 Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders will blow me this evening.-K.D
Janedeaux
Posts: 287
Incept: 2009-09-16
Green
Mississippi
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Have you considered that this is a scheme to get congress to raise the debt ceiling? "if you don't play my way, I'll take my marbles and go home!" That'll show you!

----------
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves.-anon


Smacktle
Posts: 1362
Incept: 2009-01-20
Green
Texas
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
A bunch of spoiled brats we are.

----------
The faults of the burglar are the qualities of the financier.
- George Bernard Shaw
Mrbill
Posts: 7851
Incept: 2008-10-19
Gold
North Carolina
Report This As A Bad Post Add To Your Ignored User List
Look at the liberal hacks that wandered over from HuffPo:

Wartelle6 wrote..
Maybe you can cheer them up with the knowledge that they are being kept "safe"...by the War on Drugs, War on Terrorism, War in Iraq, War in Afghanistan, War in Pakistan, War in Libya.


Straw man much?

Signas wrote..
As long as there is plenty of money for war, bombs spreading DU over large portions of the earth, killing and the Crusade on brown people.


Another victory against no one!
Login Register Top Blog Top Blog Topics FAQ
Showing Page 3 of 5  First12345Last