Political Thoughts For A Friday
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2011-04-15 09:54
by Karl Denninger
in Politics
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Political Thoughts For A Friday
 

Reflecting some more on the speech that Obama gave on the 13th, I'd like to focus in on a couple of specific sections:

We believe, in the words of our first Republican president, Abraham Lincoln, that through government, we should do together what we cannot do as well for ourselves.  And so we’ve built a strong military to keep us secure, and public schools and universities to educate our citizens.

The former is an enumerated power of the Federal Government in the Constitution.  The latter is not.  The latter, such as it exists, is in State Constitutions. 

This is rather important, because there is no broad agreement on what the public's "burden" is for such a thing.  Bearing children is an individual choice.  Some people choose to have many, some few, some none. 

The common defense of the nation is a benefit that falls on all.  But the education of children is a duty occasioned by individual and consensual adult acts of intercourse.  The two are entirely-disjoint.

Thus the State (not Federal) focus on education.  This provides choice.  Those who believe that the proper allocation of cost should go to the person can choose a state to live in where that is respected.  Those who believe that the proper allocation of cost should be common can choose a state where that is required.  The Federal Government lacks the authority, as a matter of Constitutional Law, to force this issue.  (Not that The Federal Government has given a damn about Constitutional anything for the last hundred years or so.)

Part of this American belief that we are all connected also expresses itself in a conviction that each one of us deserves some basic measure of security.  We recognize that no matter how responsibly we live our lives, hard times or bad luck, a crippling illness or a layoff, may strike any one of us.  “There but for the grace of God go I,” we say to ourselves, and so we contribute to programs like Medicare and Social Security, which guarantee us health care and a measure of basic income after a lifetime of hard work; unemployment insurance, which protects us against unexpected job loss; and Medicaid, which provides care for millions of seniors in nursing homes, poor children, and those with disabilities.  We are a better country because of these commitments.  I’ll go further – we would not be a great country without those commitments.

Really?

I couldn't disagree more.

Let's make this personal, because in fact it is.  See, Obama would argue that there is this nebulous "whole" that covers such expense.  But he knows this is a lie, because there is nothing "paid in" and "retained" for either Social Security or Medicare.

So let's look at the facts and make it personal, Barack.

Do you, Barack Obama, have the right to demand that your daughters pay for your triple bypass when you are an old man should you be such a pig that you have not provided for such a possibility yourself via personally stashing either money or purchasing insurance against said risk?

I'll ask question personally as well:  Do I, having a daughter, have the right to force her to pay for my triple bypass (or two new hips) should I be so much of a pig that I have failed, for whatever reason, to put aside the necessary provisions to be able to pay for such myself in my old age?

We must make this question personal and turn the debate toward the personal form of this question because in each and every case it is.

This nebulous "society" argument is one that those on both the left and right continually use as a means of intentional deception and fraud upon the public.  There is no such thing.  All taxes are paid by people, and when it comes to social insurance costs, most of them are ladled upon those without the ability to vote.

When my daughter was a young child, barely in grade school, Medicare Part "D" was under debate.  I had a monstrous blow-up with my family over this very issue.  While she was blithely playing in their living room, my father proceeded to tell me that he believed he was entitled to that drug benefit.

This, despite the fact that the cost of such a benefit would fall most-directly on a young girl who had no right to protest or vote for or against it herself.

Medicare Part D, like all such social insurance programs, is an intentional fraud upon our children and grandchildren.  This is particularly true for medical "insurance" for the elderly, as our medical capacity has risen in both ability and cost at several times the direct inflation and thus "contribution" rate.  As a result of this fact all such arguments are in fact a claim that you have the right to hold up, at gunpoint, your children and grandchildren to pay for that which you are unable to personally whether as a result of your decision to spend those funds earlier in your life or through misfortune.

That's the essence of the debate about "social insurance" as it applies to the elderly.  It is not about a nebulous "societal" obligation, it is about your arrogation to yourself as you age of a right to literally steal, using the force of government, from your own children and grandchildren.

The argument is one for pigheadedness of epic proportion.  Through 5,000 years of recorded history intergenerational care has been provided as a matter of honor and choice by both the older and younger generations.  This bond was formed through the love of both groups for one another from the point of birth and largely constrained what could otherwise be unconscionable acts.  As parents we have the ability to be monsters, just as children do as well.  Historically the act of either party being a monster came with a sanction of not only being cast out, but the punishment later in life of being unable to access the love and care of your progeny and parents.  Both consequences were quite serious.

We have made a serious social mistake in our failure to deal with this problem honestly.  Steve Southerland and other so-called "Conservatives" have often bleated about how the degeneration of family lies at the root of many of the problems we have as a nation.  This may well be true, but the provision of these social programs, which provide a substitute that amounts to the forcible financial rape of one's progeny, means that parents no longer have an affirmative obligation to raise their children well and transition from an absolute power relationship at birth to one of mutual respect before adulthood, lest they die alone, hungry and wanting for care.

You want to know what has been largely responsible for the destruction of the American family?  The provision of a viable alternative, enforced at gunpoint against the next generation by government, for the support functions that family used to provide.

I declare as a matter of principle, morals, ethics and fact that I have no right to demand that my daughter provide one dime of funds of any sort for my care as I age, whether my failure to be able to do so myself is a consequence of my hubris, pigheadedness, profligacy and consumerism or simply bad luck.

Any such care, direct or indirect, that she chooses to provide is only mine to enjoy through a fully-free election of choice made by her, without the compulsion of government.

It is also my considered position that if you believe otherwise in any form, under any set of circumstances, you're an inhuman monster.

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User Info Political Thoughts For A Friday in forum [Market-Ticker]
Wawawa
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I like the new look. Well done.

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RAT RACE IS OVER, RATS WON :)
Boughtthefarm
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Nailed that Karl.
Boiled_frog
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People cast votes for politicians that agree with their vision of society. That's our system. If your view is in the minority try to convince enough people to agree with you which is what you are trying to do here. I personally don't see it your way but I am sure to be the minority pin this
board.
Steph4liberty
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Karl, this ticker brought tears to my eyes. As a mother of a 6 year old little boy, I am disgusted that there are people out there who think it's ok to put a FedGov gun to my son's head and steal his future. Who the hell do they think they are? Why do people think it's ok to steal his future, when he has no say in whether it's stolen or not? And why is the welfare of someone now (maybe one who chose to have multiple kids she can't afford) more important than his in the future when he hasn't made such a bad decision?

I've always been against social programs, believing that there are neighbors, church organizations, etc. in a position (and with a desire) to help those who can't help themselves. But if you can help yourself, then it should be your duty to do so...not to force my son to give up his future because you're not willing to give up yours now.

This ticker solidified for me just how downright EVIL these programs really are. Theft of a younger generation at the point of a gun. No option for voting "no"...since most aren't even tall enough to reach that voting lever. Thank you for writing this and putting it in a way that really touched my heart. It will honestly make me consider the decisions I make much more closely, keeping in mind that they will have consequences on my son's future.

To those who would willingly, knowingly, and uncaringly steal my son's future to fund these social programs, essentially saying that Deadbeat Debbie and her brood or Unprepared-for-retirement Joe are more important than my son, here's what I have for ya...

smiley

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Corn1945
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Doesn't really matter.

All of the social welfare programs are going into the dustbin of history where they belong.

What the Republicans don't understand is that it's in their best interest to do nothing about these problems and watch the system implode. They'll get what they want by default.
Genesis
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So you believe you have the right to force your progeny to pay for your care as you age?

How did you acquire that right?

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Abn0rmal
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Genesis wrote..
As a result of this fact all such arguments are in fact a claim that you have the right to hold up, at gunpoint, your children and grandchildren to pay for that which you are unable to personally whether as a result of your decision to spend those funds earlier in your life or through misfortune.
Is there any situation in which one human being has the moral right to hold up, at gunpoint another human being? If it's wrong in the case of social insurance is it equally wrong in all other cases?
Themortgagedude
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Not sure that I agree with you 100% on it being a demand upon your daughter. Like all Ponzi schemes this will fall apart when those paying the taxes realize that it is a ponzi and refuse to continue payments into the ponzi. We have nearly reached this point now where they have resorted to Quantitative Easing.

I personally see it as theft thru the ballot box from anyone dumb enough to hold Treasuries. It'll all blow up long before it gets to your children or mine. (And Gen you've met littlemortgage - I don't think anyone better be counting on him paying attention long enough to pay off these bills. smiley)

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Corn1945
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Quote:
I personally see it as theft thru the ballot box from anyone dumb enough to hold Treasuries. It'll all blow up long before it gets to your children or mine.


Agreed.
Bertdilbert
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100% behind your opinion on this Karl. The entitlement demands of the elders strip the younger generation of the American Dream. What is worse? That the generation that is retired and retiring lived through the most successful period of our economy and now demand to suck the life out of children so they can continue their right to their standard of living.

The elders of this country should be ashamed of themselves, they left a pile of dog poo and sold their offspring into slavery for their personal benefit.

The Federal government needs to get out of all entitlement programs period.

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Themortgagedude
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Well Boiled - you're entirely welcome to your opinion that medicare is something we should have. What you shouldn't be allowed to have is the opinion that we should not be putting enough money into the fund to pay its bills. By not paying enough in we are either laying a levy upon our childrens earning capability or defrauding the purchasers of gov debt. Because we will have to default or print. Either one is a fraud.

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Otiswild
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And this is why Romneycare didn't bother me a whole heck of a lot. If you didn't want it, you were free to leave Massachusetts. You may consider socialized medicine immoral, it may BE immoral, but with federalism and freedom of movement you can choose not to be subject to that state's 50% + 1.
Boiled_frog
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Karl,

With all due respect, I don't believe we will agree on much in regards to our responsibilities to each other as a society. Things that I think make this country great, you seem repulsed by. Since we have drastically different world views do you think this would be a productive debate?

Regardless, I don't. I just find it sad.

Jpg
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Quote:
Do you, Barack Obama, have the right to demand that your daughters pay for your triple bypass ...
This phrasing suggests that if BO's daughters can't afford the triple bypass, he doesn't get the triple bypass.

Under the current scheme, if his daughters can't afford the triple bypass, someone else's kids pay for it.

I'd suggest a better phrasing would be "Do you, Barack Obama, have the right to stick a knife in your neighbor's ribs to demand that they pay for your triple-bypass, groceries, kid's schooling, rent or anything else".

The answer, obviously, is "No". Do that and you go to jail.

The fact that a bunch of people get together and tell the gov't goons to do it on their behalf doesn't make it any better.
Spazznout
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Themortgagedude...............you said it yourself....its all a ponzi.....so your daughter pays by having to live through a collapsing society.........I'd say that is even worse than a financial penalty.

Boiled Frog.................

Please explain where in history it is welfare or social programs have been a part of making America great...or where they are even a part of our history until after WW 1 ........

What made America great was hard work...communities.....families.....shared values......

You cannot force or replace those with a .gov program...........that is socialism..........................not Republicanism.............

Edit to add...........Need to also explain how in the hell we pay for your vision of what made America Great.......because without that your position is hollow and quite hypocritical as without a way to pay you have just reinforced why it is all a ponzi and you are afraid of reality and the life you are without a doubt leaving for your children and grand children..........congratulations you are gonna win this you know.............when it all falls down you let us know how that win feels..............Thanks.


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Joshua_d
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First: Lincoln killed federalism in this country. The first America has been dead ever since the Civil War, and when people realize this, we'll all be better off.

Second: I often wonder how anyone could look at their children and ever conceive of placing a burden on them. And then I think, but my parents, and their parents consented to burdening me, and my children. How could they? The answer of course is that most people think they paid into SS, or Medicare, and should get back what they paid in. Of course, this is and was always a lie. But now, my parents and grandparents have become dependent on the state, and dependency is hard hard thing to break.

But, I will break it. People like me will break it. Because it must be broke. It's going to painful, and many families will likely be split apart. But that doesn't matter, because reality will decide. I will not burden my child with what my parents burdened me. And when reality crashes in, those who have chosen to live the lie will receive little sympathy from my generation.
Grashopa
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Quote:

With all due respect, I don't believe we will agree on much in regards to our responsibilities to each other as a society.


This is hilarious. You don't want any responsibility to others in society. You want the government to do it because you are not man enough to shoulder it yourself. Conservatives are the ones that feel a responsibility to their society - they get up every day work hard and create businesses and jobs and support their communities and families. That is responsibility.

You make me sick.

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Vegasradar
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I couldn't agree more Karl
well said! smiley

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Geschrei
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OK, Karl, I've always thought it unseemly when TF'ers respond to one of your posts with hyperbole. Always seemed kind of like brown-nosing to me, even if it was deserved.

That said: This was one of the best arguments I've ever heard on this issue. You perfectly articulated the unmentioned (or unmentionable) 'hidden costs' of our state-enforced 'compassion'.

If I may be so bold as to add, it always amuses me that my good progressive friends who would find so much fault with this analysis are also the ones who are the most convinced in the beauty and power of Darwinian evolution - and yet they completely deny the counter-evolutionary effects that our profoundly anti-Darwinian social policies have had over the past several decades.

One of the unintended consequences of the inevitable end to our outrageous profligacy will be a worldwide experiment in evolutionary theory. Wonder which side's hypothesis will turn out to be correct?

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Joejohns
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schools should be local, university could be state, but lower ed should be all local.

It is little wonder that with Constitutional EXPERTS like the clown in chief that no respect or understanding of the principles of free people are left in the country.

The country , on all sides of all debates is FILLED with parasites and inhuman monsters. It's all over and is widespread on both sides of the political cesspool.

If you just calm down and turn off the sound you can see the devils they are.

That last part is not new and is why the urge for a large gvt to protect one from everything, even terrorists always leads to a nightmare.

The nature of gvt is EVIL so it must be kept SMALL and some risks must be assumed to keep it so.

Otherwise you see the outcome now.
Jduwaldt
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Orange County, CA
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Boiled Frog, even within the Democratic Party there has been disagreements on this point. Lester C Thurow, who had (until about 2000) been working with the D
's since Kennedy and Johnson, called Social Security (to pick a specific program) an inter-generational wealth transfer program where the 'first users' inevitably got more than they paid in and the 'last users' inevitably got less than they paid in. He suggested that if society was going to force people to pay for it that there instead be actual individual accounts that people were required, by law, to pay into but was an actual individual account, not pooled. He suggested Singapore's medical accounts as an example.

(Of course, what's to keep the Singapore govt from replacing that money with intra-gov't bonds, just like ours has...?)

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Jimg
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I am going to say something very liberal. Medicare-for-all instead of Obamacare could fix all this.

I am going to say something very conservative. Bush's idea for diverting a portion for the SS taxes to private accounts had merit.

The problem with both programs is that the feds were taking taxes yesterday and today with a promise of benefits tomorrow but blew the money on other things.

Flame away.

Tmmort
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Karl, concerning education, that is a very compelling and logical argument you make that should be taken seriously by serious people; this shows your ideas and conclusions are coming from someone who can add to the national debate.

Then you jump the shark, writing a screed about how SocSec/Medicare tax is "a claim that you have the right to hold up, at gunpoint, your children and grandchildren to pay for that which you are unable to personally whether as a result of your decision to spend those funds earlier in your life or through misfortune."

This is total nonsense and you know it; and if your thinking is so misguided or deliberately deceptive here, why take you serious on other subjects you write on?

Why? Social Security IS a minimum retirement plan. That's how it was and continues to be presented, and that's how every single person now drawing upon it understands it to be. And most people now drawing SocSec have paid quite a bit into it via FICA taxes during their entire working career. You can argue that the Govt has grossly mismanaged "investing" of SocSec income (e.g., by not raising FICA every year commensurate with expenses), but don't try and say people didn't pay for any of it.

Similar for Medicare - which IS a minimum insurance plan which people have been paying into for all their working career.

It's a valid argument as to whether the Govt should be involved in SocSec/Medicare at all, but "we" as a society have decided that it's better for the Govt to save toward a minimum old age income and health insurance FOR US - and you can argue the wisdom of THIS all you want.

It's hard to figure you out Karl. On the one hand, you've managed to get yourself onto various media programs because of the merit of your arguments. You obviously want people to take you and Market Ticker seriously. Then off you go onto some profanity laced tangent with extreme hyperbole and I cringe because people will just think you're a nut.
Joshua_d
Posts: 163
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Lenoir, NC
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Timmort. You're wrong. SS was sold as a retirement plan, but it is simply redistribution. People were lied to. Their money was taken and spent on other. Now, a responsible person who realized this would say, "This stops now. The stealing stops. I will not participate in stealing from others."

But that's not what people think. They say, "I paid mine in. I'm going to get mine back. I don't care, or want to know where it comes from."

"We as a society" haven't decided anything. This nonsense must stop. "Society" doesn't exist. It's just a useful way to think about groups of individual people, what those people believe, and how those individual people act. But only people decide things.

I have never agreed to Social Security. I've only been forced by law, which will be enforced by people, to pay my earnings to government people. They then give my money to other people who then continue to give the power of the gun to these government people. That's it. Society is a useful illusions to rationalize theft and murder. That's all.

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