Let's Talk About An ACTUAL Energy Policy
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2011-03-31 22:11
by Karl Denninger
in Energy
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Let's Talk About An ACTUAL Energy Policy
 

Ok, if you've listened to Pickens and the Ratigan show, you know that they seem to think that we can fix things with natural gas and perhaps with some renewables.

That will never work.  Nor will drilling here - we can replace some of our demand, but not all of it.  Further, the amount of oil we have is finite.

Indeed, all of the various energy resources are finite.  Even The Sun is finite.  It will eventually run out of fuel and "die."  It just won't happen for a very, very long time.

We have about ten years of natural gas supplies in proved reserves at present rates of consumption.  But "growth" is a nasty thing; it's a compound function, and I discuss this often - compound functions cause trouble, and usually quickly.

Pickens wants to move trucks (at minimum) to natural gas.  Nice sentiment.  But he's talking his book and pushing something that, if we double our consumption - and if we replaced gasoline and diesel we would - the "solution" would only last five years, make him filthy rich, and still leave us screwed.

There has to be a better way.  We need a solution that will last at least fifty years.

What if I told you that there is one?

It's coal.

But not how you think of coal.

We think of coal as going into a power plant that makes electricity.  But that's wasteful, believe it or not.

Here's the math on gasoline, diesel and coal.

1 lb of gasoline contains about 2.2 x 10^7 Joules of energy.
1 lb of coal contains about 1.1 x 10^7 Joules of energy.

These are reasonably-comparable; another way to look at this is that you need about 200% of coal (in pounds) as you do in gasoline for the same energy content.

Edit: Numbers vary on coal depending on type.  Changed to reflect the most-pessimistic reasonable observed number - 4/1 1:44 pm

We currently consume 378 million gallons of gasoline a day.  At 6lbs/gallon (approximately) this is 2,268 million pounds.  Reduced to short tons (2,000 lbs) this is 1.134 million short tons of gasoline/day, or 414 million short tons a year.  Converted to coal, this is 828 short tons.

The most-current value I can find for distillate (diesel fuel) is 3.794 million barrels a day.  At 42 gallons to the barrel, this is 159 million gallons of diesel fuel.  Diesel contains about 20% more BTUs per gallon than gasoline, but is about 17% heavier at 7lbs/gallon, so if we convert simply based on weight we get close.  So we have 1,113 million pounds of diesel daily; reduced to short tons that's 0.557 million short tons of diesel daily, or 203 million short tons a year.  Converted to coal, this is 406 million short tons.

Add these two and we get 1,234 million short tons a year of coal equivalent.

Why is this important?

Because according to the EIA, again, we consume about 1,073 million short tons of coal a year, virtually all of it being burned to produce electrical power.

How much coal do we have?  According to the EIA the total reserve base - the reasonable commercially recoverable coal, is about 489 billion short tons.  That's roughly four hundred years worth of supply at current rates of use.  If we assume our population will grow at about 1% a year and per-capita energy use remains roughly constant, we should have enough coal to last at least 200 years.

Now stay with me a minute.

Remember, we consume about that amount in coal-equivalent between both gasoline and diesel.

Consider this: There is 13 times as much energy in coal in the form of Thorium as there is available by burning the coal, and right now we literally throw it away in the ash pile!

What is Thorium?  It's a fertile material.  That means that when struck by a neutron in a reactor it transmutes via a nuclear process to an element that is capable of fission.  Note that Thorium itself is not fissionable - that is, it will not (directly) split and release energy.  Instead it captures thermal neutrons and turns into Uranium-233.  U-233 is fissile.

There is a type of nuclear reactor that utilizes this fuel cycle.  Instead of the traditional nuclear reactor which uses water as a moderator and coolant (either a boiling or pressurized water reactor) these reactors use a liquid salt.  In the vernacular they're called "LFTR"s, pronounced "Lifter." 

You've probably never heard of them.  But they're not pie in the sky dreams.  Our nation ran one for nearly four years in the 1960s at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory.  It was scrapped in favor of the traditional uranium fuel cycle we use today because the fuel it produces is very difficult to exploit for nuclear weapons, and it breeds fuel at a slow rate.  The natural process of the nuclear reactions in the core of such a unit produces a byproduct that is a very strong gamma emitter that is difficult to separate from the other reaction products.  For this reason - and because we wanted both nuclear power and nuclear weapons - we built the infrastructure for uranium and plutonium rather than thorium.

Thorium-based reactors have several significant advantages and a few disadvantages.  We have much less experience with LFTRs than traditional nuclear power, simply because we stopped working with them for political and war-fighting reasons.  They use a fluoride salt which is quite reactive when in contact with water, but the reactivity is a bonus in all other respects, because it tends to encapsulate the reaction products (the nasty fission products that you don't want in the environment) through that same chemical process.  It runs at a much higher temperature (typically 650C) than a traditional reactor and unlike a traditional reactor the fuel and the working fluid is the same - there are no fuel rods that can melt and release their nasty fission product elements, as the fuel is dispersed in the coolant.

Finally, the unit is intrinsically safe.  It does not require high pressure; the working fluid and coolant is a liquid at ordinary atmospheric pressure.  This gets rid of the need for high-pressure pumps, pipes and similar materials.  Without the moderator the reactivity is insufficient to sustain a chain reaction, and the moderator is in the reactor vessel itself through which the fuel/coolant is pumped, so criticality is impossible outside of the reactor vessel and inside the vessel the fuel and coolant are the same, and a liquid.  The working fluid is contained in the reactor loop by an actively-cooled plug.  If power is lost cooling ceases and the plug melts; the working fluid then drains into tanks by gravity under the reactor and cools into a solid, as it cannot maintain criticality outside of the reactor itself (there's no moderator in the tank or the plumbing.)  As the fuel is in the fluid, there is no core to melt as occurred in Japan and being dispersed over a much larger area the working fluid naturally cools from liquid to solid without forced pumping and cooling.  This safety feature was regularly tested in the unit at Oak Ridge - they literally turned off the power on the weekends and simply went home!

There are some downsides.  The working fluid requires special metals made out of Hastelloy.  But these are no longer particularly-special materials, being used in other chemical plants where highly-corrosive material is commonly handled.  They are expensive, but then again so are traditional reactor pressure vessels which require high-pressure integrity and thus special welding and inspection techniques.

Why did I just spend all this time talking about LFTRs?

Let's remember two facts from up above:

  • There is 13 times as much energy in coal in the form of Thorium as there is available by burning the coal.

    and

  • We use 1,234 million short tons a year of coal equivalent in gasoline and diesel fuel which is approximately - within 20% - of the amount of coal we burn now.

One final piece of information: The Germans figured out how to turn coal into synfuel - gasoline and diesel - before WWII.  This process, called Fischer-Tropsch, requires energy to drive it and is currently in commercial use in some places that have a lot of coal but little or no oil, such as South Africa.  Malaysia also has an operating plant.  Typical operating temperatures for this process are in the neighborhood of ~350C.

This light bulb should be coming on about now: We can replace our gasoline and diesel consumption, plus replace the coal-fired plant electrical generation, and have lots of energy left over - all while completely eliminating the requirement for foreign petroleum from anyone!

Now let's put the pieces together.

We'll start with the same amount of coal we burn today.

We have the fuel energy in the coal, and we have 13x that much energy which we are going to extract from it in the form of the thorium naturally contained in the coal.

Let us assume we consume twice the fuel content of the coal extracting the thorium.  We have 11x the original energy left (once in combustion of the coal, and 10x in thorium energy content.)

We will then use the Fischer-Tropsch process to turn the coal into synfuel - gasoline and diesel.  We will be rather piggish about efficiency (that is, presume we're not efficient at all) and assume we put in twice as much energy as the coal contains in fuel content converting it.  Since the process heat from the reactor is of higher quality (higher temperature) than the Fischer-Tropsch reaction requires by a good margin, we can do so directly without first converting to electricity (which would introduce more losses.)

We now have all of our gasoline and diesel fuel, and we also have 8x the original BTU content of the coal left in thorium energy content.

We will then use the remainder to generate electricity.

So what do we have out of this?

A nuclear and physical technology that:

  • Replaces all of our gasoline and diesel fuel requirements.  This ends our foreign oil imports.  It also allows us to remove all foreign military activity related to securing that foreign oil.  It is essentially a lock that we can drop $200 billion a year off our military budget this way, and it's not unreasonable to expect that we might be able to cut the DOD in half.  Over 20 years this is at least $4 trillion in budget savings, and might be as much as double that.  Those funds should do nicely to build the plants involved.

  • Continues to use liquid hydrocarbons for light and moderate transport needs.  Sorry folks, there's nothing better.  I wish there was too.  There isn't.  Some day there might be, but that day is not today.  The problems with the alternatives are all found in thermodynamics as a consequence of energy density and those are laws, not suggestions.  The energy and money required to produce a plug-in vehicle or hybrid is, for most users, greater than the incremental cost of the fuel over the entire lifetime of the car.  Hybrid and all-electric vehicles make no sense unless you have no rational way to produce the liquid hydrocarbons.  We do have the ability using the above.

  • Reduces our carbon emissions by the amount of the former oil imports that were burned.  We still burn the gasoline and diesel, but that's in the form of the converted coal.  Since we're only using half the hydrocarbons we used before between coal and oil, our CO2 emissions go down by the amount of the formerly-burned petroleum.  I'm not an adherent of the global warming religion but if you are you have to love this plan for that reason alone.

  • Provides us dramatically more electrical power than we have now, and more-efficiently on a thermal-cycle basis.  Conventional nuclear power uses Rankine-cycle turbines.  This is one reason why they need access to large amounts of water.  Due to the higher temperature of operation these reactors can run combined-cycle generating turbines, which makes practical siting them in places where they are air-cooled yet they can still achieve reasonable thermal efficiency.

  • Is sustainable for two full centuries, even assuming our historical 1% population growth rate and no decrease in per-capita energy use.  Within 200 years we should be able to get fusion figured out.  200 years is a long time for technology to advance.  This much is absolutely certain: There is no other option that is reasonably feasible with today's technology and which has an exhaustion horizon of more than 100 years available at the present time, allowing for our historical population growth and no dramatic reductions in per-capita energy consumption.

  • Is not subject to the same constraints and risks that exist for today's reactors, even though this has nuclear power at its core.  The accident in Japan, for example, cannot occur with these units because they do not require active cooling after being shut down to remain safe.  The working fluid also tends to bind any reaction products, which inhibits the spread of any material if there is a pipe break or other release into the environment.

  • Produces much less high-level nuclear waste than conventional reactors.  Most waste is burned up in the reactor via continual reprocessing on-site.  The final waste product produced is a tiny fraction in volume of that from conventional plants.  It is not zero to be sure, but these units present a much-smaller waste profile than do traditional uranium/plutonium cycle nuclear plants.

The biggest disadvantage is that we've only built one of these reactors, at Oak Ridge, and then we stopped because a decision was made to pursue "conventional" plants due to their dual-use capability.  But the challenges presented by LFTR technology are known, and the ability to build and operate such a plant is not "pie in the sky"; we've performed all of the necessary technical parts of assembling this alternative individually and ran one of these reactors for four years.

Are their engineering challenges in this path?  Yes.  Is it "free energy"?  No.

Can this be made to work given what we know now, at a reasonably-competitive price?  YES.

If you're going to propose something else then show me the math. If you can't, then get on board, because this is the bus that will work.

Incidentally, China and India appear to have figured this out as well; I'm not the only one with a brain.

We had better lead on this or we're going to get trampled.

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User Info Let's Talk About An ACTUAL Energy Policy in forum [Market-Ticker]
Jackl
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I wish, the white house's energy plan was a nice mixture of WE'LL DRILL MORE OIL and DOUBLE RENEWABLES!(Aka pay more for energy, and have it crap out on us at peak use.)

Politicians don't want solutions, they want sound bites that create more problems so they can "solve" them with more problems.

The budget crisis shows this plain as day. Anyone with a third grade education could tell you what needs to be done. But still they refuse to take even the first step to solvency.
Cobra2411
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Philly P.a.
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Ok so the reactor is safe but what about processing accidents?

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To err is human. To really **** things up takes government.
Detersbb
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Wrong.

Coal is not readily accessible and the market may be cornered. The answer is water powered cars-generators that run on water with a bi-product of water or hydrogen and oxygen.

No one can corner water. It is infinitely renewable. It is the cheapest most plentiful form of energy with the exception of cosmic/solar radiation on this planet.

WATCH THE VIDEO!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSVn4j-2D....
Genesis
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Industrial accidents are going to happen from time to time in anything. But the working fluid's affinity for chemical reactivity means that it will bind the reaction products, and the sort of dispersion event driven by a fuel rod fire or steam explosion (as is true with a conventional plant) is impossible, since there is no high pressure steam nor are there any fuel rods.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
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Genesis
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Deter: Oh my..... what a load of crap. You do understand thermodynamics, right?

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
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Detersbb
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Genesis-

Do you understand fuel cells?

Do you understand the amount of stored energy in a single drop of water split into hydrogen and oxygen?

Do you understand the ability to create a closed fuel loop?

Do you understand 0 pollution?

Do you understand the inabiity of any person any corporation any government being able to limit mobility based on fuel consumption?

Tell me, how is this vehicle able to operate if there is a problem with thermodynamics? It is a reuters video not some crazy idea.
Blairkiel
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"We have about ten years of natural gas supplies in proved reserves at present rates of consumption. But "growth" is a nasty thing; it's a compound function, and I discuss this often - compound functions cause trouble, and usually quickly."

Please don't take offense, but you are playing word games Gen.

And here is just one example of why:


"Antero has 169,000 net acres in the Marcellus Shale play of which only 8% was classified as proved at year-end 2010."

90% of that is proved at a minimum, but FASB or the SEC won't let them classify it as such. It is this way across the industry. So take your ten years of "proved reserves" and multiply it by 10. Then add in the fact that Hydraulic fracturing is working on a moore's law type curve and you get to over 100 years at current rates of consumption. 50 years + if we double it.

The shale plays are manufacturing, not wildcatting.

The industry does not drill dry holes unless we are talking rank wildcats.

Proved reserves is an accounting phrase and not a function of reality.
Aerius
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Quote:
No one can corner water. It is infinitely renewable. It is the cheapest most plentiful form of energy with the exception of cosmic/solar radiation on this planet.


It's not April Fools' yet.
Genesis
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Quote:
Genesis-

Do you understand fuel cells?

Yes. They're a negative net sum. You must put hydrogen and oxygen into them. The heat of formation of water is a constant. You cannot get back more than you put in, and water is the lower energy state. In fact thermodynamics says you can't even get back all that you put in - there are always losses.
Quote:

Do you understand the amount of stored energy in a single drop of water split into hydrogen and oxygen?

Yes. To store the energy you must split the water first. Splitting water into hydrogen and oxygen is like charging a battery. Recombining it in a fuel cell releases that energy you stored - less losses.
Quote:

Do you understand the ability to create a closed fuel loop?

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Every joule you get out has to have been put in somewhere.
Quote:

Do you understand 0 pollution?

Of course. Where are you intending to get the energy to split the water from and how will you do that without pollution?
Quote:

Do you understand the inabiity of any person any corporation any government being able to limit mobility based on fuel consumption?

Not material to thermodynamics. Those are laws, not politics.
Quote:
Tell me, how is this vehicle able to operate if there is a problem with thermodynamics? It is a reuters video not some crazy idea.

He's cheating. Period.

Go back to school. Sorry, but this sort of crap is just that - crap.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
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Genesis
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Blair: Those are DOE numbers, not SEC ones.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
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What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Cobra2411
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Philly P.a.
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Gen, I wasn't saying accidents don't happen. I just want to know the risks of reprocessing fuel on site. I know the reactor itself is pretty foolproof so that leaves processing as a more likely failure point.

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Sushihorn
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Quote:
Then add in the fact that Hydraulic fracturing is working on a moore's law type curve and you get to over 100 years at current rates of consumption. 50 years + if we double it.


Sorry but the bolded comment is a bunch of BS. You cannot make that comparison because cost is the only thing affected by Moore's Law. The raw material for silicon is in effect infinitely available and cheap (basically sand). The conversion ratio into useful semiconductor material and the cost of that conversion are the issue here - NOT the availability of the raw material inputs themselves.

That is not true at all of gas production - of any sort. There, the available amount of gas is definitely finite. Fracturing will provide a one-time boost in making more of the existing gas recoverable at current prices. It will NOT produce more gas - much less cause a constantly expanding pool of gas to become available.

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Gamma
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Is your btu/ton figure for coal an *average* figure for the many different types of coal produced...or is it characteristic of high quality Appalachain anthracite? That would make a difference, though the schema appears to be able to withstand a lower output from the coal side. Western coal, lignite, is quite crappy compared to nice App. Anthracite!

The Fischer-Tropsch plants needed to do this would be gargantuan affairs. Enormous. That's not my objection, but it would be a powerful gripe against this.

And...they might well have to have some means of heating independent of the thorium reactors for when the thors are down or being maintained.

But the overall scheme of things is hard to argue with. Imagining how much societal skull will have to be penetrated before we start moving in such a direction is daunting.

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Swarf_maker
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An excellent summary Karl.

Additionally, LFTR burns almost all of its fuel. The fission products cool off enough in about ten years that valuable materials such as (IIRC) rhodium can be extracted. What remains consists of comparatively short lived radioactives - no long life actinides - and needs to be stored for only about 300 years, not thousands.

The problem of fuel reprocessing was apparently not dealt with at Oak Ridge, so there is still some serious R&D to be done.

Another problem is dealing with the NIMBYs, particularly after the problems at Fukushima.

Anyone who is either interested or not convinced should view the video from the 'Google Tech Talks' presentation by Kirk Sorensen on YouTube at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZR0UKxNP....

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Blairkiel
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In addition, there is shale gas everywhere, Poland, AU, S. Africa, France, Canada etc.

We can import LNG from friendly and rational players.

Natural gas isn't the entire solution, but damn straight it is a big part of it.


In addition, you go to nat gas, and you create 3 million jobs almost overnight. We will need a ton more rigs, rig workers, steel for drill pipe, pipelines and on and on. Good, well paying jobs.

Heck, companies like Trican, Hal, SLB, FracTech have ordered every 3600 series CAT that they can get their hands on, and did so the day of the Japan disaster.
They have pretty well locked up several years of production.
Genesis
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Cobra, there will be accidents. Anyone who thinks there won't be is nuts. But we have them now - oil refineries blow up from time to time, as just one example.

Industrial processes are dangerous things. No form of energy generation is without risk. If we want energy we must accept risk. I'd far rather deal with this risk than the risk of unbridled storage problems like we have now.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Genesis
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Blair: Natural gas still makes plenty of sense for peaking loads, home heating, high-quality industrial thermal energy (it burns HOT!) and similar.

It just doesn't make sense for automobiles.

If you want to run it as a flex fuel for diesel trucks, works for me. It can be done with most engines. If its cheaper the trucker will fill with that rather than diesel. Give them the choice. Large trucks and similar don't have issues with physical space for the CNG tank that exist in cars, and the additional cost to flex-fuel a long-haul truck is an insignificant fraction of the price of the cab - assuming the natural gas is in fact cheaper.

But replacement? Bah. You try that and it won't be cheaper than oil any more. Hell, just a couple of years ago it was almost four times the price it is now.

As far as employees, guess what - the LSTR/Fischer-Tropsch plants will need them too.

I think you're talking your book. I KNOW Pickens is.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?

Blairkiel
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Bull****, from each well the recovery factors are growing by leaps and bounds.
In fields what used to be 5% recoverable are now 10% recoverable or much higher. It is also an analogy, and not a point by point overlay.


Recovery from each well is dramatically improving as is overall field recovery.

That is an undeniable fact.

Every see a 50 million cubic foot producer 10 years ago? Me neither.

Initial gross production rates in these wells have exceeded 50 million cubic feet per day. The most recent Amoruso well – Laxson – is producing about 65 million gross cubic feet of gas per day. EnCana has seven rigs working in the field now and expects to increase that to about 10 next year.

Just south of you near Hearne.





Miljardo32
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Karl, from an armchair engineering perspective, what sort of infrastructure would have to be in place for the tremendous amount of coal ash to be processed and the thorium be recovered? From a very topical view, it seems like there would be a great deal of waste product that is already toxic prior to processing. It would most likely become more so, depending on the recovery methods.

What would seem to be a more immediately impacting technology would be better superconducting materials that are able to carry current a long distance. Not to mention, why do we assume that centralization of electric power is the best choice? With the energy footprint of households in America in seeming decline, it would only make logical sense to use the power of the sun in order to offset a small amount (5-10%) of load on the grid, even if only during peak hours.

I have always been surprised by the amount of public resistance to nuclear power, even in it's current form. Japan has been warned about the danger of locating such a sensitive site in a such a seismically active area. I recall reading an article in TIME magazine ( of all places ) in the late 90s about this very issue.

...and speaking of T. Boone Pickens... I think Boone's position is extremely incestuous. Boone is a big proponent of fracking for Natural Gas and has been buying water reserves and rights for some time now. Boone knows what the consequences of fracking will be, and plans to profit off of it. This sort of piggish ****-all-of-you-I-got-mine bull**** is the same attitude that has landed us in the puddle of **** we are currently in. He can take his "CNG" and shove it up his ass.

Genesis
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Quote:
Karl, from an armchair engineering perspective, what sort of infrastructure would have to be in place for the tremendous amount of coal ash to be processed and the thorium be recovered? From a very topical view, it seems like there would be a great deal of waste product that is already toxic prior to processing. It would most likely become more so, depending on the recovery methods.

We already have the coal ash. We literally toss it right now, and a good amount of the cancer risk that's caused by coal is from the thorium that goes out the stack. Yeah, they scrub it - but they don't get it all.

We're not adding a new problem here - the coal ash is already being produced as we're BURNING the coal right now, producing the ash. This isn't pollution-additive, it's materially subtractive from what we produce today.

Remember, we're REPLACING a lot of oil refineries with the conversion plants.

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What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Swarf_maker
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Miljardo32 wrote:
Quote:
Karl, from an armchair engineering perspective, what sort of infrastructure would have to be in place for the tremendous amount of coal ash to be processed and the thorium be recovered? From a very topical view, it seems like there would be a great deal of waste product that is already toxic prior to processing. It would most likely become more so, depending on the recovery methods.


There are substantial deposits of thorium in the US and elsewhere. It isn't only found in coal. In fact thorium is 10,000 more abundant than uranium 235.

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Genesis
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The only reason I picked on the coal is that we need it as a feedstock for the liquid hydrocarbons.

You can use methane by the way for that - natural gas. It's just damn convenient that we happen to have the coal reserves to do it with, and we were going to burn it up anyway.

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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me
Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb.
What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
Blairkiel
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Large Trucks will be LNG Gen. CNG wont work for that. But I am not even going to advocate companies like JB Hunt moving to LNG...at this point it is enough to just get Frito Lay delivery trucks on the stuff, or Coke Delivery Truck, or the local produce merchants.

Out here there are plenty of CNG Tahoe's running around.


The larger point being, you don't need two gas burning cars. You need one. For road trips.

CNG can replace all local driving. Electric is Bull****, because you need the Gas or Coal to create the electricity today, and the grid cannot support electric cars.


I am not talking my book, your thorium solution isn't exactly on the doorstep of reality. We may get there as a country, and if one wants to argue we need to do something, then nat gas is the ONLY thing that makes sense in the mid term.


Second, nat gas prices have plummeted, because we have more than we know what to do with at this point in time. Just look at Cheniere, Sabine Pass,TX has been switched from an LNG import facility to an export facility, and Encana, EOG and Apache are in a JV in canada to do the same.

We are going to start exporting it, because the supply outstrips demand. It makes all the sense in the world to increase demand rather than exporting it.


Go ahead and double the price...call it $9 an MCF...that equates to $2.75 cent per gallon gasoline equivalent.

$1.39 is the price today.
Blairkiel
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There is no reason to switch off of coal either except the greenies dont like it.

The PRB has ridiculous amounts of coal and new lands just got approved South of Gillette for leasing.


Secretary Salazar announces new coal lease sales in Wyoming
Bob Beck (2011-03-22)
CHEYENNE, WY (wpr) - Secretary of the Interior Ken Salazar says the Bureau of Land management will hold four competitive coal lease sales in Wyoming's Powder River Basin in coming months. During a news conference in Cheyenne today/Tuesday, Secretary Salazar noted that the four lease sales could yield about 758 million tons of Wyoming's low-sulfur coal. Salazar says that should be a good thing for both the national and local economies generating between 13 and 21 billion dollars.
"These funds go towards all services our citizens enjoy such as highway infrastructure and transportation systems, our department of defense, our military, our nations national parks and forests."
Wyoming will get 48 percent of the money from the sales. And Salazar added that more Wyoming coal lease sales could occur later in the year. The announcement was praised by the President of Wyoming's mining association Marion Loomis who says his industry has been pushing for these sales since 2004.
"The ability to acquire new coal reserves is a key one and we are pleased they decided to go forward with it now."
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