Sorry, you're wrong.

The mutual assistance principle says that symbiosis is indeed possible. That is, the cost of personally providing a safe water supply, electrical power, defense and similar things is quite-possibly higher than the price of doing so collectively through a thing called "government."

Thus, governments are established with the consent of the governed. Yes, there will be those who do not consent and wish to engage in various ill acts. But if any material percentage of the population decides it does not consent it can end that government without the violent overthrow of same.

Those who argue that there is no option here and elsewhere (other than violent revolution) have just been proved wrong.

Again.

And frankly, I tire rapidly of intellectually-bankrupt arguments, especially when the proof that you're wrong is right under your nose.

"  ALL governments fail when the economic capacity to tax is destroyed.  ALL citizens give their consent to their government each and every day by performing economic acts and thereby exposing that activity to taxation."

Rumor has it that some people engage in economic acts without paying taxes, that being their way of both not supporting the government and having the means to buy food and other necessities.

In any case, how does denying government revenue shut it down when the CB prints to pay for the deficit?

As to those who are happy for the Egyptians, I prefer to withhold judgment. Popular uprisings are very rarely spontaneous (see the movie, "Don't Drink the Water" from about 45 years ago). The only organized force in Egypt besides the Army is the MB. I fear that this is going to end up the way Iran did - with Mohammed (I Like The Iranian Bomb) El Bareday (sp.?) playing the role of Baktiar - i.e. He will be a nice figurehead until the MB can gather enough strength to gain power, then he'll run away and ultimately be killed. Democracy is not the general rule or the default condition of mankind, quite the contrary. Revolutions are usually consolidated by those with the best organizational skills and the willingness to use weapons against anyone who gets in the way. In a culture/nation with no history of democracy, the odds of an even more repressive regime coming to power are high-hence the phrase "better the devil you know than the one you don't."

Sorry, but IMO they didn't win ****. They are just trading in one dictator for a new one, just another American puppet to be more blunt about it.....

"better the devil you know than the one you don't."

You are wrong on so many fronts as to make a fool of yourself.

Beyond hope.

Accept the devil if you like.

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Rumor has it that some people engage in economic acts without paying taxes, that being their way of both not supporting the government and having the means to buy food and other necessities.

The person you buy from probably paid taxes. Sorry, that sort of "galt" crap (really, just playing underground and illegal economy) doesn't work.

And if we end up with another Islamic "Republic" will anyone care?

Why is that our decision? If we're going to annex other nations, then let's quit ****ing lying to everyone and just do it.

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Why is that our decision? If we're going to annex other nations, then let's quit ****ing lying to everyone and just do it.

It isn't but do we really need another rogues state like Iran with our present foreign policy?

I'm all for self determination but I am also for appropriate response when they cause trouble.

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It isn't but do we really need another rogues state like Iran with our present foreign policy?

Why would you assume for a second that is what will come of this? The young people of that nation just threw out a 30 year dictator who controlled their lives. Why would you think they would lay down for a regime that would dictate to them what their religion should be? The evidence is right there that they would not.

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Why would you assume for a second that is what will come of this? The young people of that nation just threw out a 30 year dictator who controlled their lives. Why would you think they would lay down for a regime that would dictate to them what their religion should be? The evidence is right there that they would not.

I hope you are right.

Time will tell but I remember this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates....

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Celebrations

There have been calls for the Ayatollah's return - and news of the Shah's departure was greeted with mass celebrations across Iran.[/]

I still say Egypt is not out of the woods yet. The current dictator may have resigned but what's to guarantee that the 30 year "state of emergency" and torture won't go on under the hands of the military? The Egyptian people had better be prepared for a long strike until a permanent duly elected government is in place and actually listening to the will of the people.

As far has here in the US, it's never gonna happen as long as the Fed keeps creating money out of thin air and social security and food stamp payments keep coming.

The security sector is the threat now in Egypt. There's apparently almost 2 million of them (per CNN). Who is controlling them?

And there's no telling if their victims will be seeking revenge.

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The young people military of that nation just threw out a 30 year dictator who controlled their lives.

Fixed. There are clear indications that this was a military coupe.

Karl wrote..

That is, the cost of personally providing a safe water supply, electrical power, defense and similar things is quite-possibly higher than the price of doing so collectively through a thing called "government."

You want to extract something, via force, from those who wouldn't sell it at your price voluntarily. That is, you want the government to steal it or fix the price for you.

Sure, you might consent to this, as long as you profit from it. If that's the case, you are the government ("by The People") rather than the governed. The governed, by definition, are controlled, which precludes consent.

Allen Thornton wrote..

What do you think "govern" means? It doesn't mean "suggest" or
"implore." It doesn't mean two people sitting down, talking it over, and
compromising. "Govern" means "force" and "force" means "violence."

it didn't take mubarek long to step down after his assets were frozen. :)

who knows what will happen in the future, but you have to admire the people for trying.

The people didn't win anything yet.
More than likely Egypt will end up with a terrorist oriented regime.
We all lose when that happens.
You heard it here first.

Islamic democracy (?) on its' way to Egypt, yaaaay . Poor ol' Profit Mahamad would be rolling over in his grave .

What's the saying that's widely overused these days; be careful what you wish for. I think Webster's Dic should probably take a serious look at including "Islamic democracy" in their next publication, as there is no such thing, wait, please see OXYMORON..... The "wanting their cake and eat too crowd" in Islamic Egypt will get exactly what they are looking for in due course, get the popcorn out. Also, pls remember that 90% of the Egyptian population hates you, Amerika.

I don't even both reading any tickers relating to Egypt. Most of you in Amirca just don't get it....Yes, many of you have relatively high IQ's, however, any EQ that you might have had left the building a very long time ago....

Barry is very fortunate that this so called "revolution" occurred during the US winter, as I suspect Washington would have already been plugged up with fanatic Christians demanding the resignation of BHO. Listen to the will and demands of the people, pffttt.....This guy is really truly not very smart (again lack of EQ)....

"Democracy" usually means the biggest cultural group bands together and immediately "votes" to oppress/genocide their ancient enemies. I see no reason this won't happen in Egypt.

Pooey. 50 years ago there would have been massive blood. Reasons there wasn't in this case:

back channel diplomatic pressure on Egypt to not shoot people was massive.

because the synchronized bubble being inflated by central is fragile (even nascent bubbles are vulnerable to pin prick), and because we are currently "wired" in such a way that govt cannot control information flow.

So Mubarak was restrained by forces larger than his. Bet on it. Don't count on extrapolating this forward to the big board, if it should come to that.

KD's persistent adherence to non-violent protest for changes was just proven still effective at these day and age by the Egyptians. It is so true that massive, determined, and peaceful demonstrations can get things done, even without much official organization nor leadership.

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You want to extract something, via force, from those who wouldn't sell it at your price voluntarily. That is, you want the government to steal it or fix the price for you.

Sure, you might consent to this, as long as you profit from it. If that's the case, you are the government ("by The People") rather than the governed. The governed, by definition, are controlled, which precludes consent.

Blah blah blah.

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Karl wrote..
That is, the cost of personally providing a safe water supply, electrical power, defense and similar things is quite-possibly higher than the price of doing so collectively through a thing called "government."

You want to extract something, via force, from those who wouldn't sell it at your price voluntarily. That is, you want the government to steal it or fix the price for you.

You accuse me of something like this you now must prove where I've called for that.

I'll give you one shot to either do so or retract and apologize. No second chances, no sputtering, no excuses.

One shot.

Flinter


Are you familiar with the amerikan holiday of thanksgiving and the ritual bird served?

A being as advanced as yourself should have little trouble from there.

Just another tired old non thinker trapped in the same old tired game.

boring tiresome weak.


oh by the way o enlightened one since 90% of them hate US the correct response is full speed ahead on the same policy or should we just nuke em and get it over with.

tired boring weak nonsense.

@throxx, tesla, KD, -- DING, DING, DING, You are bright people who understand - peaceful revolt - stop working - stop paying banks, if you stop earning, you may legally stop paying taxes.

For the rest of the peanut gallery: Who cares if Egypt is "trading one dictator for another", or if it's "really going to work" out better for egypt. Egypt is irrelevant - we have our own revolution to conduct right here in the USA, and Egyptians have provided the blueprint, through their courage and their educated, organized, protesters. And MOST IMPORTANTLY:

THE ARMY DIDN'T FIRE ON THEIR OWN PEOPLE. If the army in Egypt won't shoot (in our modern, worldwide, communications age), the army/police in America WON'T SHOOT EITHER - NO WAY, NO HOW. The politicians have lost control of the use of force by their government paid thugs. (army/police)

This is the salient point of the entire deal - the army/police will not shoot their own people - it's going to get that bad in the US, but the people will prevail.

http://market-ticker.org/cgi-ticker/akcs....



Cheers to the Egyptians! They had to work hard for this one - over two weeks of protests, clashes, sit-ins, sleeping in streets/tents, while dodging rocks, tear gas, molotovs, police cars, and even bullets in some cases. They risked life and limb for this, and it shows in how happy the people are now that Mubarak is gone. It's 5am over there and they're still dancing in the streets. These are the fruits of great courage and determination, something that unfortunately seems to be lacking here in the West.

Yeah, there are still a lot of unresolved issues, but I'm 100% confident the Egyptians will tackle these easily. They've already proven their muster. Most importantly, they've set an example.

So who's next?