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| Foreclose Or Lose Your Mortgage! in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Tesla
Posts: 15543
Incept: 2008-04-03
State of Disbelief
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Well, we have enhanced pat downs now, so why not enhanced looting techniques ? Moving on up!
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"Even a dog knows the difference between being stumbled over and being kicked." -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes
"Neither the wisest Constitution nor the wisest laws will secure the liberty and happiness of a people whose manners are universally corrupt." -Samuel Adams
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Docj
Posts: 1000
Incept: 2009-09-10
Duck & Cover
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Quote:In addition one has to wonder if the municipal governments could adopt a similar strategy, forcing the banks to disgorge these notes - either crap or get off the pot, so to speak. But the local governments are in a Prisoners' Dilemma, of sorts. If they do start to sue wholesale and watch these homes unload into the market the values - and therefore the tax valuations - of the remaining properties, and therefore their tax base, craters. So now you're forced to raise tax rates (massively, in some cases) just to keep yourself at par and in many places around the country (such as mine, where Town Meeting meets only once per year) that's really, really hard to do. Besides, nobody wants to be serving in public office at any level when property values are falling through the floor. I'm not at all disagreeing with you as to the need for these things to happen, KD. Only that their actually happening is probably such a vanishingly small probability it's pointless to even discuss it.
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The preservation of liberty depends upon the intellectual and moral character of the people. As long as knowledge and virtue are diffused generally among the body of a nation it is impossible they should be enslaved. - John Adams
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Lurkerm
Posts: 23
Incept: 2008-08-01
Huntsville, AL
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I don't fully understand the HOAs motivations.
I foolishly bought a townhouse in 2004, even though I knew I would hate an HOA. Sure enough, the HOA was ridiculous on it's best days. I tried attending meetings, polite emails, to no avail.
I even served as treasurer, mainly to have a heads up on what ridiculous rule or assessment was coming. We had accounts receivable that was increasing at 10% monthly! While the board wanted to (and ultimately did) spend all of the reserves on re-landscaping and repainting a 5-year-old development, I was adamant that they couldn't afford it. "Property values" just say that and all debate ends - not that your typical HOA board member has any capacity for reason in the first place.
Anyway, I read (in statutes and news articles about other associations) that in foreclosure HOAs don't have a lien position per se - they are entitled ONLY to the lesser of 12 months of dues or 1% of the original mortgage value. That wasn't enough to justify much more than a letter from a lawyer and filing a lien.
I guess the theory is: foreclose and maybe the next person will actually pay the dues? Since recovery of late dues/fees is nonexistent anyway, just write them off?
btw - I resigned and dumped my townhouse, both Realtors were feeding this line to the buyer:
"You're smart for buying a townhouse and not a condo, the HOAs on those are going broke..."
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Nirvan45
Posts: 4036
Incept: 2007-10-31
florida
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Well here is some tidbit that even surprised myself.
As you know this area of FL was hard hit, and I thought it was improving Til a couple of days ago walking the dog two street over I paid close attention. 4 houses out of 5 in a row vacant, owners moved out and place been sitting empty for a long time, the last house in the corner got my attention and counted
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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What are these tax certificates you speak of? In Illinois and Missouri I thought that you could go in and pay someones taxes for them and then charge the property owner interest on the taxes. These taxes then become a priority lien. But the county gets there money upfront.
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Sangell
Posts: 379
Incept: 2009-08-16
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I was following the action in Ft. Myers in regards to a large highrise project there that famously had sold but one unit in a 32 story tower. The owner held an auction with no reserve on 40 units the other day. He didn't like the prices he got. Barely $100/sf. He has pulled the other 250+ remaining units for failing to meet the reserve prices. OK, I understand he wants to get more than what people want to pay right now, but how does that affect the 40 plus 1 people who now own units in that building?
Obviously the swimming pool, lighting, elevators and other common facilities and amenities will cost more on a per capita basis if only the 40+1 owners are having to pay for them than if all 335 or whatever units in the building were sold.
The question I have can the existing tenants caught in such a situation FORCE the owner/developer/bank to disgorge the unsold units and put them on the market at realistic prices rather than burdening them with the costs of operating a building at 20% occupancy?
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Cobradriver
Posts: 90
Incept: 2009-08-04
Port Charlotte,Fl
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Quote:As you know this area of FL was hard hit, and I thought it was improving Where in Florida? I'm in Charlotte County and even though people think its better...wellllllll. The backlog of empties is pretty impressive once you really start looking for them. The city/county has been mowing the bad ones to kinda hide them. The number of people who are in real trouble that I work with is pretty staggering. Most haven't paid in over a year,one is over three now. I said going in we were looking at 10-15 years to even get a handle on the Florida RE market. That may have been a little conservative... Chris
Reason: speeeeeeeeeeeling
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Rbnh
Posts: 44
Incept: 2010-10-07
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KARL, PLEASE THINK AGAIN!!!
. When looking at the involuntary servitude created by HOA and Condo "law"(?), it is important to define "EXPENSES". Like all kafkaesque despots, they lie. They tell you that bills are for vital services, which is the half truth no one would argue about. "Vital" is Newspeak for extortion.
The real facts and full truth can only emerge after a forensic audit based on GAAP: You will see that the major portion of expenses was/is predicated upon fraud in which case they have no capacity to sue. They tried to screw us all, and have now been found out. Let's get the stashed-away money back, save crippling lawyers fees and send realistic bills based on real recession based expenses. By law, condos are not apartments. After evicting all flippers and their apartment renters, resident condo- and home owners can live happily ever after.
You will see that the same masters who pulled off the home confiscation scams (fraudclosuregate) are also pulling off the condo scams. The ultimate objective is identical: "Land reform", the annihilation of private property rights in America.
To "Raid Banks, not Homes" we should add:
"RAID CONDO-MANAGERS, NOT HOMES"!
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Mschemeng
Posts: 180
Incept: 2010-10-03
Toronto ON
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Yep, morgage money is supporting economy... LOL!
Another silly indicator that many are using to say X-mas shopping will be great is satellite images of mall parking lot. I find it funny, because most of my friends with small children would go to malls all winter long, just to get kids out. Now if you are unemployed or unemployed with kids, where else would you go but to the mall, particularly in cold weather.
It costs nothing to change scenery, McDonald’s cost the same at the mall…Given the aggressive pricing I’m seeing from a start, there is nothing telling me that retailers are seeing great season ahead. Sears open on Thanksgiving, why? Trinkets are cheapest they ever been, they can’t get rid of the stuff…one item of exception is X-mas food baskets, which are 20-30% more than last year…
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Cobradriver
Posts: 90
Incept: 2009-08-04
Port Charlotte,Fl
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Quote:The question I have can the existing tenants caught in such a situation FORCE the owner/developer/bank to disgorge the unsold units and put them on the market at realistic prices rather than burdening them with the costs of operating a building at 20% occupancy? That right there is why I wouldn't touch anything with an HOA. One of the women I work with was*****ing and moaning the other day that her fees had doubled over the last couple of years. Heck,I had a realtor tell me she knew of a couple of older waterfront places that the monthly fees were more than the payment... BTW,I know the building you are talking about. I thought the bank owned it??? Chris
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Sangell
Posts: 379
Incept: 2009-08-16
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The original builder of the Oasis project is managing it Chris. I think the bank did foreclose on it but he formed another corporation to market the units. Yeah you're right about that HOA problem. Its not a bad looking property either but you could get the penthouse unit for $1/sf and go broke if you've got to pay the expenses of owning all the floors beneath you.
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Themortgagedude
Posts: 8853
Incept: 2007-12-17
saint louis
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Sangell - I thought about bidding on a place in that building. Parents are down the road. Too many question marks for me though. I thought about $40 a foot would be about fair considering everything. And I knew that wouldn't buy it.
I think I'm going to buy in Cape Coral. Try to get a Chinese Drywall home for about $20K and spend $40K to fix it up. They are going for about $40K now but if I make enough offers ?????
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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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Mdm
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-13
South Florida
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Quote:I think I'm going to buy in Cape Coral. Try to get a Chinese Drywall home for about $20K and spend $40K to fix it up. They are going for about $40K now but if I make enough offers ????? Be careful with that and make sure it will only take $40k to fix it. In many of those homes, the sulfur gases released corroded all of the copper including all plumbing, electrical wiring, and air conditioning systems. Once you look at replacing all the drywall, most of the plumbing, most of the electrical, and most of the HVAC, it very well might exceed $40k. I'm not saying that all of these properties are that bad, but some are.
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No1ninja
Posts: 2054
Incept: 2009-08-19
Mississauga, Canada
Banned
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Forgive me if I am wrong, but if taxes are not being paid, most jurisdictions have the right to seize your property auction it off and take the taxes owed.
If the bank does not want to foreclose, the city should start the proceedings themselves. If the owner has no equity, and the Bank is stalling, the bank should be liable for the taxes.
(Of course they both know that the property values of their communities will drop substantially. Where I live, property taxes are assessed by the value of your home. If I don't like the cities evaluation, I can appeal the houses true value and get it re-assessed. Could it be that the municipalities are stalling as much as the banks are? Since their take depends on maintaining current property values.)
EDIT: Thanks for the edit Unknownsailor, lol, it did look weird, but the hamster still was not moving the wheel.
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Unknownsailor
Posts: 140
Incept: 2009-04-06
Haze Grey and Underway Via Bremerton, WA
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Seize, not cease. And that is correct, some states allow seizure of residences for failure to pay property taxes. Something I vehemently disagree with, for if the State can do that, then the home owner is essentially renting their home from the State.
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Dashingdwl
Posts: 9764
Incept: 2007-06-26
los angeles
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The long road to a housing recovery – 279,000 California homes in shadow inventory. 2.1 million versus 4.85 million homes nationwide in the shadow inventory pipeline. Only 8,000 bank owned homes show up on the SoCal MLS yet statewide banks own 90,000 homes. Posted: 23 Nov 2010 03:14 PM PST The housing market has very little chance of maintaining a sustainable recovery until it clears out the immense amount of shadow inventory. This inventory cannot move without solid employment growth. The water cannot flow freely until we unclog the filth plugging the drain. Banks have done a poor job in every respect including fostering an open market clearing function for real estate. Banks are almost like rent seeking slumlords that have added very little value to our economy and steal from their taxpayer host. In the past, banks would make a sizeable portion of their income putting together deals on growing and expanding companies and institutions. They were dealmakers and had the important role of allocating capital to the best industries in the economy. That is no longer the case. Just to put this into context, Goldman Sachs this year in one of their quarters made 63 percent of their profits trading. In other words banks are too busy churning volume on the stock market casino to concern themselves with the massive backlog of real estate or figuring out which industry will create jobs. For example, CoreLogic estimates 2.1 million properties in the shadow inventory pipeline. But this doesn’t highlight the entire picture. The shadow inventory is defined differently by a few sources but there is general agreement overall. Let us try to run the numbers. Read the rest of this entry » http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/the-l....
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When you are hard and disciplined, you can be principled. People fear you because they have no leverage against you. It's the truest form of Liberty.
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Wawawa
Posts: 249
Incept: 2009-03-18
San Diego, CA
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RAT RACE IS OVER, RATS WON :)
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Risingcream
Posts: 4407
Incept: 2007-09-07
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Seriously, I want a free house.
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Civilization...ancient and wicked. --Subotai
“The distance between insanity and genius is measured only by success”
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Shioda
Posts: 219
Incept: 2009-02-21
Newport Beach
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What the HOAs need to do is foreclose on the lien, take title. Rent the property out and collect the rent while not paying the banks holding the notes.
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Let the stupid bird fly first - Old Chinese Proverb
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Donethat
Posts: 771
Incept: 2009-04-22
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There are those Texas predators who service HOAs and get all the service fees from jacking late payments into 5,000 or 20,000 dollar bills for their "legal" expenses. In a Texas HOA foreclosure near you, mortgage vampire squid meets predator.
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Mannfm11
Posts: 3551
Incept: 2009-02-28
DFW, Tx
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I noticed it was all good for the market. http://www.prudentbear.com/SPX +16.05 http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-24....Sales of new homes below expectations and below previous all time low record http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-24....Orders for durable goods unexpectedly drop. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-24....Unemployment claims fall to low since July 2008 This is still 60K above the highwater market in the last good economy. Maybe the additional 12 to 14 million people that have filed for claims since July 2008 has exhausted the supply of people that can be laid off. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-24....Ireland credit rating cut 2 levels. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Stock-mark....Now for the bull****. Only another 80,000 people over what would be considered an economy with growing jobs lost their jobs last week. The credit of entire nations are collapsing, new home sales, after the government has thrown a few trillion down a hole are still at record lows and durable goods orders are in the tank again and we are told the market is parabolic because of jobless claims. How bout manipulation? Anyone ever figure out that the man on the street, the funds manager and others have absolutely nothing to do with moves like this? It is the same people that are playing the nonsense KD brings up in this post that are running this market. Fall asleep on your short position, wake up with a foot up your ass. The mortgage market is honest in comparison. What is more substantial news? Poor home sales? Falling durable goods orders? Ireland downgraded 2 notches? 30,000 fewer people showed up at unemployment offices a week before Thanksgiving than last week? I recall this number was an aberration around Thanksgiving last year. The reason the market is up is a pure and simple lie. These other 3 reasons are just as good of reasons for it to be down an equal amount. The market is up because the insiders saw today as an ultimate chance to **** those that were involved in it to their own advantage. Otherwise, the employment number would be lost in the smoke and quite often is.
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The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable.---John Kenneth Galbraith
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Rbnh
Posts: 44
Incept: 2010-10-07
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Shioda
Take title? Tell us HOW? (legally...)
Collect rent against a property they do not have FULL LEGAL clear title to?
A civil RICO lawyer would probably say that the evicted homeowner can get very rich through that...
"RAID CONDO-MANAGERS, NOT HOMES"!
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Mdm
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-13
South Florida
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Rbnh: An HOA can file a lien for unpaid assessments then foreclose on the lien. They take title subject to liens that are superior in priority. Usually this means they take title subject to the existing mortgages. The mechanism for taking title is the same as it is for bank foreclosures. The HOA has legal title, but the mortgage does not go away. The HOA can rent out the property until the bank forecloses and takes title through the same foreclosure process.
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Andyc
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-24
Banned
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Dashingdwl
Those are good points, in this bankster bailout bubble we get nothing out of it in the end, at least in other bubbles there were gains in business, technology, infrastructure and the like, in this bubble its all paper pushing.
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