Genesis wrote..

When the people of this nation - hundreds of thousands of them - are willing to lay peaceful siege to Washington DC - to be "in their face" every single day without fail, refusing to leave, being in the face of every Congressman, every Senator, every FOMC and Federal Reserve Board Governor, every OCC employee - at their office, in front of their house, where they appear to give speeches - then, and only then, will the banks robbing people stop.

Well, that's where the comparison with the Vietnam protests of the 60's and 70's breaks down, no? Who were the people who were, for the most part, doing the protesting back then? Of course, young - and I'll be even more blunt, draftable - people. And why were they protesting? Well, because they 1) had the time and lack of "ties" that enabled them to do it, and 2) they clearly had the most to gain (and lose).

Believe me, I'd love nothing more than to bring my pitchforks and torches and camp out down in DC until Benron and company are frog-marched into a citizens trial. I, a middle-aged, upper-middle-income wage-slave with a mortgage (and blessedly zero other debt), obviously have the most to gain - and everything to lose if the pigmen continue to have their way.

So, who feeds my family while I'm gone as I'm the primary breadwinner? And who keeps the banksters' swat team at bay when I'm away and I can't pay my mortgage any more because I'm down laying siege to DC?

So I get it, the need for a massive, nationwide, wholesale grass-roots smack-down of Uncle Sugar is precisely what is needed - but the bastards have us right where they want us.

Sucks, but there it is.

What does one do about the fox that robs the chicken coop?

Huh? How big was the tea party protests and the Glenn Beck rally? Its not that they won't come out, it's that they are ignored, at least until people in Washington start loosing their jobs because of this. 60 was a good start but I don't think that they got it, and probably never will. Also, the protests of the 60's and 70's were not all that peaceful as I recall.

Sea: No, they "come out" but then they GO HOME.

DC knows this, and they know they can (and both do and will) ignore it.

That's all there is to it.

You guys all want "organized" protests. DC ignores those.

What they won't ignore is UNORGANIZED protests. Hundreds of thousands coming not because Glenn Beck tells them to, not because I tell them to, not because Jon Stewart tells them to.

No, they come instead because NOBODY HAS TO TELL THEM TO - THEY'RE SIMPLY*****ED OFF AND THEY'RE NOT GOING HOME UNTIL THEY GET THE SOLUTION THEY CAME FOR!

Salt wrote..

What does one do about the fox that robs the chicken coop?

Give up chicken farming, and move to Mendocino county?

we know this but just had to type and vent

apparently some really big names (**** the bankers, we know that) attached to this

there is so much evidence out there

yet nothing is being done

what happened with issa and fbi?

A Reply to the following quote:

"Well, that's where the comparison with the Vietnam protests of the 60's and 70's breaks down, no? Who were the people who were, for the most part, doing the protesting back then? Of course, young - and I'll be even more blunt, draftable - people. And why were they protesting? Well, because they 1) had the time and lack of "ties" that enabled them to do it, and 2) they clearly had the most to gain (and lose)."

Forgive a "newbie" for horning in. Re: "why were they protesting?"....Those of us who attended the marches, the protests, the free concerts, the street blockades weren't all "draftable" or young or there because we "had the time" or lack of ties. Your characterization is based on several assumptions that are mistaken. I was a mother of two and drove a VW bus as a shuttle between the churches and the free clinic for protestors who needed aid after being gassed or who were exhausted and needed food and shelter.

There were large groups of middle-aged and older folks of every colour and income bracket who, if not actively marching were providing support, food, money and a place to crash. It was a significantly homogeneous group of "aware" and "determined" Americans who refused to be complicit in the carnage and rapidly narrowing freedoms in both their country and those under the boot of the occupying forces. The difference now appears to be a more successful method of intimidation and propaganda combined with the enthralling of the populace via the entertainment media and the wholesale misrepresentations of the government. Folks of every age, when fully informed, will get up and get out and raise hell. Folks who are fearful and unable to distinguish false threat from real danger will cower and take cover. Without a method to expose this wholesale "coup" that is now occurring via the financial and legislative systems there is little chance for a groundswell of protest.

Our efforts need to be expanded to encourage, coax and inform those who have even the slightest tendency to question the "official" information. And, as with others, I offer an opinion regarding what is needed with no explicit suggestion of how to manage it. This forum is a miracle in today's ever-expanding media blanket of misinformation. Thank you, Karl

You also have to remember that it still took about ten years to end the Viet Nam War, despite the protests, and despite the ever-increasing weight of public opinion against it. The latter may have had something to do with people's kids coming home in body bags--and people's kids coming home disillusioned, busted up, and/or half crazy. A LOT of boys were killed, and this eventually made even their parents unhappy--even though there seems to have been a high level of parental complacency about dead sons, back in the sixties. (Their parents were, of course, the WWII generation.) And it still wasn't the parents who were protesting.

Another factor in the sixties was that the media was all over the protests and the "counter-culture"--to a great extent actively promoting both. The music industry inundated this country with protest songs from around 1965 until the early 70s. The Beatles recorded an iconic anti-war song "Happy Christmas (War is Over)" in 1971.

I'm not saying we can't have a bankster-demolition movement. I'm just pointing out that, while we have the model for this, I'm not seeing this model in action.

First off, you need a compelling counter-cultural movement that draws forth some kind of positive vision--of a world without bankster vampires stealing everything that's not bolted down (and much that is), where children are secure in their homes, where communities are not shaken down and destroyed, where people have the opportunity to work at something constructive--and keep the fruits of their own labor.

Suggestions for slogans:

"But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid."

"Men shall build houses and live in them, plant vineyards and eat their fruit; they shall not build for others to inhabit nor plant for others to eat."

Quote:

So, who feeds my family while I'm gone as I'm the primary breadwinner? And who keeps the banksters' swat team at bay when I'm away and I can't pay my mortgage any more because I'm down laying siege to DC?

So I get it, the need for a massive, nationwide, wholesale grass-roots smack-down of Uncle Sugar is precisely what is needed - but the bastards have us right where they want us.

Yup. But eventually their shenanigans will cost you your job, and your house... and then you'll have all the time in the world!

See... they haven't completely thought it through :)

(sorry, for the AM gallows humor)

Strega, thanks for your post. You set me straight! Wonderful first post!

It already has for millions of Americans.

If you're on Funemployment, explain again why, when you know the banks is going to steal your house on top of it, you're not waving a sign and protesting in front of these thieves homes?

It simply is this - what you're getting right now is sex, not rape.

The difference between the two is consent.

I just posted this to another thread, but relevant to topic:

Most americans will not "stand up" if they can avoid it. 1M cheated, homeless americans is not enough - neither is 50M - that's what tptb are counting on. Defrauding 20M - 50M american families of all they own can and will be placated by "benevolent social programs" designed to provide "food and housing" for those who lose everything to the bankster criminals over the next 5 years.

TBTB will be supported by the "favored" classes: leech****s, .gov employees, quasi .gov employees, and most importantly, the financial services industry.

An "orderly decline" is the plan, so each individual must decide for themselves, "where do I fit into that plan?"

How did the Nazi's slaughter 6M Jews? - no one stood up because it was happening to their neighbor, not them. Most americans, with their comfortable lives, care not "for whom the bell tolls".

Rather than bemoan that fact, you may choose to care and to act. The cause is just, the purpose is right. You will lose. Those who choose to act against the financial fraud structure that our country has become, will lose and be ostracized and criminalized by many.

But at least, we all have a choice - either go with the flow, or stand up and actively disrupt what's already in progress. Personally, I cannot "go with the flow", therefore, I must act against the financial******and pillage that the FSI/.gov is conducting.

Docj, would you rather lose your hard earned job/income/home/family now, or later? The pigmen WILL continue to have their way. That unfortunately, is the choice before each of us.

Strega - thanks for the context and an awesome first TF post. Well done. Your points are well made, but here's mine in response - take away the large crowds, driven in size almost entirely by hordes of young people, and all the energy for the anti-war movement and the counterculture in general goes bye-bye.

You'd think the FunEmployed 20-somethings who are up to their necks in 1st-rate student loan debt, owed to their 2nd-rate school for their useless 3rd-rate degree would be open for such a movement - but I suppose so long as Wii and FaceBook are available that's not much of a worry for TPTB. Well played by them, sez I. They clearly learned the lessons from the 60's and better prepared the young sheeple this time around.

As for the older FunEmployed? Well, Idol's on. Enough said.

Halfbrite - that's also a fair point. Frankly though, if I'm not around the rest of my family, including my disabled son, become food. So Going Galt is actually a far more viable solution for me - and one for which I'm actively laying the ground work - than is joining the revolution.

I'm former Army (reserve) and still, it turns out, retain some of the skills from my spectacularly undistinguished service career - turns out those skills are somewhat helpful, and transferable to family. So sorry folks, looks like I'm going on strike, not going off to the barricades.

The Washington Post tries to make the case that this agency or that failed to do its job when the real issue was much larger and worked in both directions. The states were not out there diligently enforcing their rules and being ignored by a Federal regulators. They were every bit as co-opted by the FIRE and TBTF lobby as every/anyone.

States control foreclosure proceedings not the feds. The same foreclosure mills and practices that were being used in 2010 were being used in 2000 and even earlier. The only difference then was the numbers were smaller and real estate values were climbing so the states did not worry if John Doe's house was taken from him. They even liked it as it could then be resold and reassessed at a higher valuation without benefit of grandfathered tax protection. If state agencies had any problems with the process the place to go was not Washington but to their own courts.

For DocJ: check out this link.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2010/n....

For Karl: Seems that some people agree with you regarding "organized" vs. "disorganized" protest.

Also: DocJ "You've essentially supported my point in referring to people who are taken by or taken in by the telly, other forms of corporate distraction. And, thanks for the kudos, appreciated.

To Sharon: Thanks so much for the encouragement. Somewhat intimidating to post on such a hip site.
Hope I haven't broken the rules with this post. If so, apologies.

Strega: Yep. Organized protest is easy to ignore. It's a LOT HARDER to ignore the implied threat that comes from UNORGANIZED protest.

If 500,000 people show up in DC, each on their own and none will leave, there's a verrrrry uneasy hidden message in there. You have a half-million people who are*****ed off enough to do this without being provoked by some charismatic leader. Well, those half-million could easily decide individually that laying peaceful siege isn't working - and individually, you have no prayer in hell of trying to interdict them since there is no command and control infrastructure to go after - that is, you can't "cut the head off the snake."

Let me suggest another 'problem' we have in distinction to the Vietnam or any other 'war'. This is not some 'policy' error that can be turned off or reversed.
The situation is systemic and too many of US are part of that system and or profit from it. It is like tax or entitlement benefits and it maybe the fatal flaw of democratic government.

If everyone is a 'thief' then how do you prosecute theft? The only people complaining about home valuations soaring during the bubble were renters who, for whatever reason, where not able to participate in the game. In fact, they were paying for it as the properties they lived in got churned and whose rent went up after each sale. Only when values began to fall did people get religion
and want to clean up a corrupt system but not if it means any profits they made
from the corruption have to be 'clawed back'.

I believe things will have to get much worse before we see results. What Karl is doing and others (i.e. Ratigan having a guest on that talks about revolution) is what is needed. That is to say the public first has to become informed of the theft, FEEL the results of that theft, become enraged and demand action. As I recall (I was 17 at the time) the Vietnam war protests were in every major city and college town in the US. Our school was locked down because of the fear of violence (angry kids hellbent on destruction were trashing everything and a teacher was assaulted). I snuck out to join the college kids with their peaceful protest. It was random and chaotic, the police had no clue what to do because the vandalism was so widespread.

That is what got their attention....widespread anger erupting all over the place. My friends were either dying from the war, fleeing the country to Canada or coming back messed up in the head (my roommate being a fine example of PSD). We simply haven't reached that 'critical mass' yet...but we will...soon. My guess is by August we'll be in a full blown Depression and that's when the guns will come out. Drive a BMW and you can expect to be shot at and no, gated communities will do nothing to stop starving people looking for revenge.

The truly sad part is this is just so damn unnecessary! Stop the looting and start prosecuting. The BlueDogs didn't get that message and they got voted out. This lame duck session before January is a chance for Congress to prove they stand for the rule of law. If they stand back and do nothing, they are saying to the public we don't care about the middle class...screw you. And the people will say "No, screw you (with a torch or bullet)".

Here in Chicago after the Blackhawks won the Stanley Cup, we had two million fans take to the streets in the city to celebrate.

The American people DO NOT CARE about "fraud", "Foreclosure Gate", "The FED", or anything of the sort.

They simply do not want to relive the horrors of the Great Depression.

They view a 1 dollar increase at the pump as "Shared Sacrifice". Rather than lose another 8 million jobs

When does American Idol start? This is what people are concerned about, sadly.

NOW, If you run a weekly Death Row Game Show - Banker style ... You might get some people interested.

I don't think any amount of marching is gonna stop what's coming. The course is set.

I pray to God I'm dead wrong, but I've made the decision that what little time, money and energy I have left are better spent preparing for and insulating my family from what I see as the inevitable collapse.

Been heading that way for a while now in my head, I'm finally admitting to myself and fellow TF'er that I'm there...

Thanks to all the truth-tellers, truth-lovers and truth-seekers for showin me that you're out there and you still exist. I work in the "heart of the beast", so to speak.. A massive federal bureaucracy and the people here are so out of touch it's sad, really. This juggernaut is not stopping.

Karl's comments and recent tickers have lead me to concede that it's going to have to get much worse before it gets any better.

Protesters who descend on D.C. have to do so by their own motivations and not by some Televangelist's cries for freedom.

Until people are starving, cold, and*****ed off, nothing will change.

Prepare yourself and your families for the dark descent.