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| The Wall Street Journal Again Opines - And Lies in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Jonliles
Posts: 10
Incept: 2009-03-11
Northern Kentucky
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Typo alert... When you screw 8 out of 10 people - knowingly and intentionally - any honest assessment of what went on must including the "F-bomb"
should be....
When you screw 8 out of 10 people - knowingly and intentionally - any honest assessment of what went on must include the "F-bomb"
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Danno
Posts: 67
Incept: 2009-06-11
midwest us
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"The Uniform Fraudulent Transfers Act says you cannot enforce a security interest if you make a loan to someone with knowledge that their income stream and assets, after the loan is made, is insufficient to service it to term."
I've never heard this and doubt that it's true. Furthermore, IIRC the UFTA typically only allows a creditor to attack a transfer as fraudulent, not a debtor.
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Genesis
Posts: 130679
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Danno, I think you misunderstood it (and I likely wrote it poorly, and have revised it.)
There is an implied covenant of good faith in all contracts. A contract which the lender knows the borrower cannot perform as agreed is voidable on this basis.
However, it is also (under the uniform fraudulent transfers act) fraud for a borrower to take a loan that they know they can't pay.
So we have, in this case, both parties who failed to provide consideration as both breached the inherent covenant of good faith.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Drench
Posts: 28631
Incept: 2009-11-10
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Or is it fraud in fact, fraud in the factum, which might void the transaction? If I sell you a deed to 123 Main St. and 123 Main St. doesn't even exist, is that really a deed? If there are no mortgages in the box, is it really a "mortgage-backed security"?
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Ct1977
Posts: 231
Incept: 2009-08-13
East Hartford, CT
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Karl.....up to this point this fraudclosure disaster has been fully contained by the media and for all intents purposes swept under the rug. Heck, the market has totally ignored it. What gives?
When is this thing going to get serious? So far it's a big ole' nothing burger. I mean we know it's not, bu that doesn't matter. It's just being ignored by everyone and chalked up as paper work errors.
Reason: Spelling
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Genesis
Posts: 130679
Incept: 2007-06-26
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Drench, that too.
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I don't care if it makes sense -- only if it makes money. -- Me Bank (n): See scam, fraud and theft. Eat a bankster -- they're low-carb. What part of "shall not be infringed" was unclear?
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Jstanley01
Posts: 8176
Incept: 2008-07-30
San Antonio, Texas
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Snapshot from a Wall Street Journal editorial meeting... 
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You can't cheat an honest man. ~P.T. Barnum
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Throxxofvron
Posts: 10315
Incept: 2009-02-17
Hyper-Speculative Psycho-Facsistic Parabolic Blow-Off
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It is the Wall St. Journal; -You gotta expect them to shill for the Banksters until the bitter end.
Of course that doesn't change the fact that they are full of ****...
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DIONYSUS: " Thou hast no knowledge of the life thou art leading; thy very existence is now a mystery to thee. " -from 'The Bacchantes' By Euripides “During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.” -George Orwell
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Jake3463
Posts: 769
Incept: 2010-03-06
Allentown
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PR 101
Deny everything at first, when that doesn't work admit to a few "mistakes", next phase is finding a scapegoat.
Delinquent Homeowners aren't going to make a good scape goat.
Hey but the PIIGS are all fine and aren't going to default, have heard that for a year and a half now, yet every month or so one of them almost blows up.
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Wineaux
Posts: 533
Incept: 2009-03-23
pure Liquid pleasure
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The good old Wall Street Journal - created for the pump monkeys written by the pigmen. Quote:There is an implied covenant of good faith in all contracts. A contract which the lender knows the borrower cannot perform as agreed is voidable on this basis. How do the banks get away with this from a credit card perspective? Jacking someone's rates from 0% to 29.9% seems like BAD JuJu.
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What wine goes with unemployment?
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Blackswan
Posts: 5562
Incept: 2007-11-06
Just outside of Philly
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I don't give one dime to the msm print media. **** em all!
They spin and lie why buy thier Goebels jackoff spew?
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“It’s checkmate. Everywhere it’s checkmate.” Hugh Hendry
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Etz
Posts: 13888
Incept: 2007-06-26
LA
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Legal chicanery and beneficent darkness are the banker's stoutest allies - F.Pecora.
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Blackswan
Posts: 5562
Incept: 2007-11-06
Just outside of Philly
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Etz - nice graph.
No ****.. everything has decoupled with the major US indexes.
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“It’s checkmate. Everywhere it’s checkmate.” Hugh Hendry
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Sangell
Posts: 379
Incept: 2009-08-16
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Anyone read the IRA commentary for 10/27? http://us1.institutionalriskanalytics.co....Must read given who these folks are. Thought KD wrote it. Whalen might not be appearing on CNBC anymore. He calls the troika of Obama, Bernanke and Geithner literally traitors ( ok he uses the term 'treason') and goes into how one loan could be sold many times.
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Tz
Posts: 785
Incept: 2007-09-18
varies
Banned
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I think it is called "estoppel".
And this isn't even fraud - like when a bank approves something after their due-diligence department has reviewed it multiple times - even if they don't alter it.
You can have a contract, but if there is also a representation that, for example they won't foreclose but instead refi in 2 years and reset everything, and after 2 years they fail and the payments become unmanagable, under estoppel they can't foreclose - they can only grin and bear it, or do the refi even if the house is underwater and they can't find an appraiser to say differently.
There is also "unclean hands" - a party to the fraud can't have standing to get an injunction on anything related to the fraud. Or even if it isn't fraudulent - this goes back to the assumption that the mortgage was intended to be real instead of a time-bomb.
In the podcast Karl himself pointed out the severability of terms - not every provision of a contract is valid as written.
These are also "Technicalities", but are also part of the common law going back BEFORE the constitution. And the big banks could hire lawyers who know that - to make the provisions in the contract valid, and what would give them standing to sue in court.
And for the "man who paid cash" to be foreclosed upon in a judicial state - it shows the system is completely broken, or the banks are so negligent that they are culpable for fraud. These aren't technicalities or clerical errors - how do you get dozens of people through the process - including the judge - to not check something as basic as an address. Does the person with the actual default get a free house since they foreclosed on the wrong one?
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"I am become debt, destroyer of worlds"
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Andyc
Posts: 333
Incept: 2010-10-24
Banned
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"The Obama administration has been trying to keep people in their homes by cutting their mortgages down to a size they could afford, but has succeeded in modifying relatively few, and then mostly for people so hard-up they defaulted anyway.' http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2010/10/s....650k people were arbitrarily denied a Hamp mod simply for the banks to game the system, the banks received $1000 per denial and $500 more for stringing these people along for 6 months more although they obviously intended to deny everyone at the outset. Later, after the denial, the banks turned around and told these very same people "you missed your payments and now owe us penalties, fees and interest on the accrued amount" in other words the banks lowered the amount of say a $1000 mortgage payment to $700 and then after the denial penalized the people for not paying the $1000 all along. Absurd as this sounds, from what I have read this is true. What did Obama have to say about this? Nothing, he works for the banks Wines that go with unemployment http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/sw....
Reason: add link
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Leslie
Posts: 50
Incept: 2010-06-25
NoVa
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The WSJ Editorial Page lying? It can't be!
/snark off
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Lilvern1
Posts: 4768
Incept: 2007-09-28
Bender! You're blind, stinking, sober!
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The WSJ is surely correct that the Florida guy who paid cash for his home and those who are paid off on their mortgage and got foreclosed on anyway are the exception to the rule. The great majority of the people who have been foreclosed on by the robosigners were truely behind on their payments; no one who has been following this whole robosigning mess denies that. Still, the robosigning process was wrong. It was unethical and outright illegal. I like what Barry Ritholz said in his October 23 blog entry over on The Big Picture. He quotes NYT columnist Joe Nocera: Quote:It is absolutely true that the homeowners that Bank of America wants to foreclose on are in default on loans they should never have gotten in the first place. (Gee, whose fault was that?) But it simply does not follow that the bank therefore has an absolute right to take back the home. Under the law, it has to prove it has that right — by filing documents that show that the owner of the mortgage has conveyed that right to it. That’s why this affidavit scandal isn’t some legal nicety. It’s about the single most important value of American jurisprudence: due process. And then follows up with is own comments (my emphasis in bold) Quote:That has been why I have been hammering the fraudclosure issue so hard — my focus is on the rule of law, property rights and due process. The banks expediency needs does not mean that they get to throw away centuries of laws because they are inconvenient. I agree completely with Barry here. The great majority of the folks foreclosed upon by the robosigners were behind in their payments and would have been foreclosed upon eventually under any circumstance. BUT.. that fact does not invalidate rule of law and due process.
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"The Keynesian clowns will be howling that reduced stimulus killed the recovery. However, the reality is there was no recovery in the first place, only an illusion caused by unsustainable stimulus." Mish **** CNBC
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Bagbalm
Posts: 4251
Incept: 2009-03-19
Just North of Detroit
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When you publish bull**** it erodes your reputation. Nothing is harder to regain.
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Tommyw
Posts: 2618
Incept: 2009-04-20
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Actually, I'd argue this reinforces the WSJ's reputation perfectly.
It all depends on your starting assumptions...
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“In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own.” - Thomas Jefferson
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Sharon
Posts: 4352
Incept: 2008-02-10
Odessa, Missouri
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The sneering tone of the article is memorable too, and is the kind of thing that can cost a person more than their...ahem..."reputation."
The author sounds like he's been caught keeping his rickshaw boys in involuntary servitude--and is focusing on the culpability of their indebtedness, while dismissing his CRIME as a mere legal technicality.
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Semper ubi sub ubi.
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Victorberry
Posts: 155
Incept: 2010-01-12
Bedford, TX
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It looks like I was mistaken about the Libertarians being with the people in this mortgage mess. Based on yesterday's Larry Kudlow interview with Mark Calabria of the Cato Institute, the Libertarians (at least these Libertarians) are clearly with the banks! http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=16....Note: Apparently, the Cato Institute has been infiltrated with country club Republicans posing as Libertarians. I guess we'll have to hear from Ron Paul as to whose side the Libertarians are really on. Ron? Paging Dr. Paul? Is it just me or is Ron Paul's silence on this mortgage mess matter deafening?
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Truthseeker
Posts: 8474
Incept: 2007-10-07
NorCal
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The "tone of voice" in both the original piece of garbage and the reply are perfect demonstrations of the probity of the respective authors.
Serves to confirm my opinion of each.
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"...But people better realize that the worst-case scenario could actually happen.9/11 happened. This can happen. An economic 9/11, the likes of which we've never seen." Gerald Celente
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Tommyw
Posts: 2618
Incept: 2009-04-20
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Victorberry- I'd look into who funds the Cato Institute.
Hint- it's the same folks who fund Heritage, AEI, Brookings, etc. etc.
The mouthpieces will all say exactly what their owners want. They'll phrase it with different code words to get the right dog-whistle response among their marks audience.
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“In every country and in every age the priest has been hostile to liberty; he is always in allegiance to the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own.” - Thomas Jefferson
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