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| Charges And Specifications: An Open Question in forum [Market-Ticker]
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Sangell
Posts: 379
Incept: 2009-08-16
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I'm worried that the NY FED, Blackrock, PIMCO 'put back' is going to be a big swindle that is up and running first for that very reason. If these guys can work a deal with BofA then that will be the protocol every other investor will be forced to adhere to.
It makes no sense for Blackrock/BofA to be plaintiff and defendant in a suit as they are one and the same. Same with the NY FED and PIMCO. These are not 'investors' seeking redress from fraudulent securities but actors in the game trying to rig it.
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2banana
Posts: 337
Incept: 2008-02-25
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Quote:It's the dirty secret that corporations use to restructure or clear their debts whenever they get in a bind - even if the reason they're there is their own foolishness.
To be fair - when a business does this it takes the risk of liquidation and most/all of the top managers get the boot. But the point is well taken.
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Bluebird
Posts: 1380
Incept: 2008-05-02
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When you say refuse to do business with banks, are you also saying to refuse to do business with Credit Unions? Some Credit Unions are listed in the MERS Member Banks (5,199 total) http://chinkinthearmor.net/Member_Banks_....Those of us who use TreasuryDirect.gov, need a bank or credit union to link up with, unless there is another way to redeem Treasury Bills without a bank or credit union?
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Etz
Posts: 13888
Incept: 2007-06-26
LA
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In the words of the banksters' favorite puppet, Keep moving forward Karl! 
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Legal chicanery and beneficent darkness are the banker's stoutest allies - F.Pecora.
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Economic4caster
Posts: 121
Incept: 2008-12-10
In the fetal position!
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I think people still believe that we will some how pull out of this mess. Most people don’t have a clue about how screwed up things are. I can’t even get friends and family to pull their money out these corrupt banks and put it in a credit union. They say it is too much of a hassle, or they have been banking with B of A for twenty years. The only thing that will wake people up is when this whole thing collapses around them, but by that time it will be too late! The banks will keep milking the system and the people all the way to the very end.
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Irishsamurai
Posts: 1150
Incept: 2008-11-03
GA
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If you're going to call for a national strike on the banks, why not kill the enablers too ...
Everyone stop paying income taxes at the Federal level ...
Again, this idea that Wall Street is somehow worse than D.C. is ludicrous ... the banks are only enabled to do what they do through the lawmakers and their one-sided policies in D.C. and if they won't stop spending, we should stop funding D.C. as well ...
Still pay your state and local municipalities ... but starve the Federal leviathan ... no more income taxes from independent contractors and small business owners ... if one of us doesn't do it, they win ... if we all stopped, we win ...
Otherwise, great ticker Karl.
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“Why is it the ship beats the waves when the waves are so many and the ship is one? The reason is that the ship has a purpose.” - Churchill
Reason: typo
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Anti
Posts: 4282
Incept: 2007-10-09
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I don't know about the different types of bankruptcy however if someone is out of work, isn't it true that they would be more likely to be able to discharge their debts completely versus having some partial payment plan imposed on them?
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Health is better than health insurance http://gerson.org/ Over the past 60 years, thousands of people have used the Gerson Therapy to recover from so-called “incurable” diseases such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease and arthritis.
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Photopro
Posts: 638
Incept: 2008-03-18
Banned for spam signature
Banned
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Irish +1 yep, We should all stop doing business with the Fed Gov. as well
Also, I know people that didn't even waste time with bankruptcy, they just stopped paying period.
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Mschemeng
Posts: 180
Incept: 2010-10-03
Toronto ON
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http://4closurefraud.org/2010/10/19/full....if anyone needs a good laugh, take a look at Wells Fargo robosigner deposition (remember they don’t have any issues with foreclosure process, but this woman signed 500/day)…it gets really good pass 40page mark… SNL couldn’t write it better…Robosigner, believes that if Wells Fargo is a servicer of the mortgage, that means that they are working on the file ( foreclosure file)…every person that singed for Wells Fargo, signed as Vice President, but there are like 5 Vice Presidents in group of 13 document processors (and that’s all they were…document processors)…she had no idea what she was signing from legal prospective (many funny answers)… SNL should really do a piece on this, no writers needed!
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Tienkou
Posts: 4225
Incept: 2007-09-09
Connecticut
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Irish, your suggestion about not paying the IRS will lead to some serious problems. But there is another way, under-withhold and then file quarterly and pay. The disruption in cash flow to Fed.Gov will be a problem for them.
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Barack Hussein Obama - The last President of the First American Revolution. The US Congress has abdicated its role as a governing body.
The most dangerous man is the one with nothing left to lose. Our government is making more of them everyday.
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Iou
Posts: 1025
Incept: 2009-03-16
The Twilight Zone
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I agree. It's time we start playing the game by their rules. Send the banksters a big **** sandwich every month. Until the fraud is prosecuted and this mess is clean up no more mortgage payments. Eat that ****!
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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."- Frédéric Bastiat
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Boshaugh
Posts: 2082
Incept: 2008-08-08
Northern Virginia/DC Metro Area
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how much credit card debt would it take for a bankruptcy to make sense?
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Irishsamurai
Posts: 1150
Incept: 2008-11-03
GA
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Tienkuo, Quote:
Irish, your suggestion about not paying the IRS will lead to some serious problems.
If 500K small business owners stopped paying their quarterly income taxes on January 15th 2011, you are exactly right that would lead to some serious problems ... The IRS does not have the manpower to overcome that kind of message ... 500K businesses is less than 10% of all small businesses in the country ... just think what would happen if 20 million independent contractors did the same thing ... Again, you're right. If you do it alone, you die in Tiananmen Square ... but if 19.999 million of your countrymen join you ...
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“Why is it the ship beats the waves when the waves are so many and the ship is one? The reason is that the ship has a purpose.” - Churchill
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Bohemian
Posts: 9658
Incept: 2010-07-27
California
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Quote:So here's my question America: Why do we put up with this? Stop blaming me for this, Karl. Stop blaming America. In case you didn't notice, we are heads down, scrambling to drive ourselves to work, make ends meat and live every day. Exactly what do you want us to do? Kill our city council? Set bombs off at the SEC? Pull a Timothy McVeigh and blow up the nearest Federal Building? Are we supposed to vote? Hell, you are going to write in 'Beelzebub' for governor. So am I! There are no choices, right? So that solves, what? Short of dragging federal officials and politicians out of their offices and executing them or hanging them from the nearest tree, exactly what do you propose? The system, from lobbyists to Congress and president is working as intended for the last 50 years - the way 'they' intended it. 'We the people' had little to do with this bastardized form of government that benefits corporate America and pig men. So since banks are lawless, are we supposed to be lawless, too?! Should we just say **** IT and grab the pitchforks, M16s and AK's and march the D.C.? The SEC doesn't do ****. *check* The FBI doesn't do ****. *check* The Congress doesn't do ****. *check* The president doesn't do **** *check* The judges don't do ****. *check* -- Joe Blow is going to prison in his third strike for robbing some old lady of $20. He will do 25 to life. Mizolo will do no time and pay a fine not even 1/4 of what he has in his pocket from the scam that literally robbed America. You lowballed that number. His profit was over $400 million on cash and stock options, not including a pension. I'm supposed to fix this how? March? Protest? Or is this the part where we actually get down to killing a mother ****in' banker for disobeying the laws of the land? I mean you have proven it, right? So what are my options? The banks, the Fed, the politicians, the enforcers and the justice system and courts don't do ****. Why would they? It's their own private Ponzi. Voting doesn't do ****. Do you hear the Tea Party candidates squawking about the mortgage fraud mess? Anyone? Alan Grayson and Nancy Pelosi? No thanks. I'll pass on those two retards. The entire system is rigged. So my options are .... move, kill some bitches and go to prison or watch the system implode and burn some IRS tax forms? -- Read the signature, ironically by Nixon. Solutions aren't the answer. There are no solutions. We are ****ed and Costa Rica ain't such a bad place to retire.
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"The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice; you have owners. They own you. They own everything." - George Carlin
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Salt
Posts: 191
Incept: 2010-05-28
NC
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"your suggestion about not paying the IRS will lead to some serious problems."
Such as?
Do "we the people" want to send 'them' a message?
As I recall, they work for us.
And Bohemian gets a gold star.
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Irishsamurai
Posts: 1150
Incept: 2008-11-03
GA
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@Salt Quote:
As I recall, they work for us.
EXACTLY. This is why when I go into the DMV and the lady gets belligerent with me, I don't say "yes ma'am" ... I say "I pay your ****ing salary ... where's your supervisor?" ... and if they're belligerent with me, we go up another chain ... every government worker earns a living on my productivity by sticking their hands in my pockets ... they work for me, they work for you, we don't work for them. It is high time we make this clear ... Folks, the whole idea of why we have a government has been bastardized by the bankers, by the leech****s, by everyone who is looking for something for nothing. Not to channel (see summon) Bezzle here ... but he's right (and no he's not paying me to say that) to an extent ... We get and PAY for the government we deserve ... and if the service/product sucks, we should stop paying (or pay less) ...
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“Why is it the ship beats the waves when the waves are so many and the ship is one? The reason is that the ship has a purpose.” - Churchill
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Tickticktick
Posts: 119
Incept: 2008-11-23
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And now, we present a brief musical interlude from the ho-hum, garden-variety, day-in and day-out type of wanton and systemic fraud, avarice, and mendacity that so brightens the hearts and adds joy and a spring to the step of TF'ers everywhere, and quickly present a brief peek behind the curtains under the big-top tents....... "The Foreclosure Crisis: Punchline to a Michael Lewis Joke from 2008? http://www.deepcapture.com/is-the-forecl....Quote:“...In late 2008 Michael Lewis wrote a Portfolio article (“The End“) weaving together a story line concerning a then-recent lunch between himself, Michael Lewis, and John Guttfreund of Salomon Brothers and Liar’s Poker fame (thus, arguably, nemeses), and another concerning Steve Eisman, a money manager who bet heavily against the MBS market. The climax of this latter story runs as follows:
"That’s when Eisman finally got it. Here he’d been making these side bets with Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank on the fate of the BBB tranche without fully understanding why those firms were so eager to make the bets. Now he saw. There weren’t enough Americans with ****ty credit taking out loans to satisfy investors’ appetite for the end product. The firms used Eisman’s bet to synthesize more of them. Here, then, was the difference between fantasy finance and fantasy football: when a fantasy player drafts Peyton Manning, he doesn’t create a second Peyton Manning to inflate the league’s stats. But when Eisman bought a credit-default swap, he enabled Deutsche Bank to create another bond identical in every respect but one to the original. The only difference was that there was no actual homebuyer or borrower. The only assets backing the bonds were the side bets Eisman and others made with firms like Goldman Sachs. Eisman, in effect, was paying to Goldman the interest on a subprime mortgage. In fact, there was no mortgage at all. ‘They weren’t satisfied getting lots of unqualified borrowers to borrow money to buy a house they couldn’t afford,’ Eisman says. ‘They were creating them out of whole cloth. One hundred times over! That’s why the losses are so much greater than the loans. But that’s when I realized they needed us to keep the machine running. I was like, This is allowed?’” ...If Lewis was right, banks packaging up mortgages did not just do a sloppy job in the packaging. They were also selling those packages several times over. Which, to readers of DeepCapture.com, may sound familiar. If this is really what is happening down below, how would things appear on the surface? Like this: a bunch of lawyers representing the interests of owners of these “mortgage”-backed securities would be going into court trying to foreclose on homes, but not be able to establish clear chain of title. Which is precisely what is happening. That’s not the same as saying it is why it is happening. However, if Lewis’ story about Steve Eisman is correct, then eventually this would have to happen. Whatever the cause (or amalgam of causes) of this foreclosure crisis, its effects could ripple into our financial system in a way that some say will become catastrophic. Banks which believe that millions of people owe them money suddenly realizing that no specific people owe them money while millions of borrowers suddenly realize they don’t owe money to any specific bank; banks suspend foreclosures, but people thrown out of their homes by banks who lacked chain of title form classes to recover what is rightfully theirs; title insurance becomes impossible on a non-negligible fraction of homes. Etc…" P.S. anyone who hasn't read the entire Michael Lewis article "The End" is simply missing a huge piece of the puzzle. http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/na....
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Salt
Posts: 191
Incept: 2010-05-28
NC
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How many people read the Ticker? It's presumed that each person is somewhere around 7 times removed from any other person in the world. Now, if just two iterations out of readers of other blogs pointing back to this blog stopped all contact with the federal government, how many might that be? Three iterations?
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Asdqwe
Posts: 132
Incept: 2010-06-18
Banned
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Ah-hah "complexity" - a lot of us are going to die due to complexity. Get used to it. And yes I am going to call my "representative" and tell him he is a traitor to this country if he doesn't move to abolish the Fed - blah,blah put him on the watch list....blah, blah.
I'm fairly drunk now and hopefully drunker when they drag me away from my family. **** everyone that allowed our government to reach this stage.....
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Halfbrite
Posts: 2459
Incept: 2008-10-13
Arizona via California
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KD said: Quote:I argue that you have no ethical or moral requirement to behave ethically with an entity that intends to screw you via any means it can manage to legally get away with.
If the government won't stand up and perform it's duty, then it's up to the people to decide Yup. Getting really close to deciding myself. I've paid bills twice a month, on the 1st and 15th for many years, have perfect credit, have had many accounts "paid as agreed" for 20 years or more. I just paid all my bills on Oct 15. Nov 1 ? your guess is as good as mine, but I'm getting really close to saying "screw it" and going "off grid". Strange times indeed.
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"That which cannot continue, will not continue. Brace for impact!"
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Asfg3
Posts: 158
Incept: 2008-08-29
South Florida
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This is so ugly. I believe that today's announcement regarding BAC, PIMPCO and Blackrock is some kind of false flag. Something dark is being planned behind the curtain again, but I have no idea what it might be. You can be assured it will be us who picks up the tab once again.
As Karl stated, those who committed this fraud have already received their bonuses and big paychecks so that when the SHTF they'll be long gone. That's a done deal.
I have been begging my friends who have lost their jobs and are underwater with their mortgages to seek legal council...they won't listen. They keep making mortgage payments and living in fear. I'm going to try to write a form letter so that they can write to their banks and ask for a copy of the notes. Maybe that's a start.
God help this country.
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Jal
Posts: 512
Incept: 2009-03-25
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You listed 11 points where someone else has had control of the fulcrum.
Without that control, you are powerless.
Find it! ---- Give me a fulcrum, and I shall move the world.- Archimedes of Syracuse
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Uwe
Posts: 6428
Incept: 2009-01-03
19446
Online
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KD wrote..If the government is going to be part of an organized looting operation Government is an organized looting operation, almost by definition. What's surprising is how much competition they have been willing to tolerate lately.  -Uwe-
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“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” - John Locke
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Bohemian
Posts: 9658
Incept: 2010-07-27
California
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How soon we forget ...
-- A pilot furious with the Internal Revenue Service crashed his small plane into an Austin, Texas, office building where nearly 200 federal tax employees work on Thursday, igniting a raging fire that sent massive plumes of thick, black smoke rising from the seven-story structure.
Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo said the incident was a single act by a sole individual, who appeared to be targeting the federal building. He refused to classify it as terrorism.
"I call it a cowardly, criminal act and there was no excuse for it," Acevedo said at a news conference.
The FBI identified the pliot as Joseph Stack, a 53-year-old software engineer. Stack was confirmed dead, but his body has not yet been recovered.
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I contend there was an excuse for it. See above.
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"The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice; you have owners. They own you. They own everything." - George Carlin
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