Charges And Specifications: An Open Question
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2010-10-19 21:51
by Karl Denninger
in Screw The Banks
Ignore this thread
Charges And Specifications: An Open Question
 

It's time to cut the crap.

As was pointed out in an article that neatly summarized the last three and a half years of Tickers into one article published on the 14th, L. Randall Wray, Professor of Economics, said:

What President Obama must understand is that fraud is endemic at every level of the home finance food chain. We were long told that securitized mortgages cannot be modified because of the complexity involved—modification of most mortgages would require consent of the holders of the securities that each have a piece of the mortgage. But actually it is impossible to tell how many—if any—of these securities holders have a legitimate claim on any of the mortgages. Simply imposing a moratorium will not be enough—it will just give the banks time to manufacture false documents, encouraging even more fraud. Meanwhile, half of all homeowners with mortgages are already underwater or are within spitting distance of being underwater. Many of these are drowning because the epidemic of fraud perpetrated by financial institutions destroyed our economy and caused housing prices to collapse.

That's right.

Here is my list of charges and specifications related to this.  I will leave you all - including especially the politicians - with something to think about for a bit as well.

In no particular order:

  • In 2004 The FBI said there was an "epidemic" of mortgage fraud.  The government ignored it and in fact reassigned FBI agents away from investigating.

  • In the 2000s The Federal Government intervened and prevented States from enforcing their own anti-predatory-lending laws, which at the time would have put a stop to many of the no-doc and other "serial refinance" lending practices - practices that by any reasonable person's interpretation were intended as fraudulent asset-stripping schemes.

  • The banks created "No Doc" and "Option ARM" loans, along with 2/28 and 3/27 "Teaser" subprime lending.  Borrowers didn't ask for this, they were fed it by the financial industry.  The industry lied to consumers about their ability to afford what they were purchasing by qualifying borrowers at these teaser rates, not to mention further abuse when, once they had the mortgage, selling them car loans and such but only counting their current "teaser" payment in their debt service requirements.  I have long argued that these programs were fraudulent from the start as none were intended to result in payments for 30 years ending in the ownership of a house without a note; their intent was to strip fees by forcing serial refinancing.

  • Property appraisers were involved as early as 2000 and threatened with black-balling if they did not play along with ever-higher "valuations."  There are over 10,000 appraiser signatures on a petition from the early 2000s asking the Federal Financial Institutions Examination Council to stop this abuse.  It was ignored.  Intentionally inflating appraisals is fraud.

  • The securitizers - all big banks - packaged loans they knew were trash into securities that ratings agencies blessed with "AAA" approvals, and by their own admission those agencies worked with the securitizers to give the ratings desired, never looking at the loan detail tapes.  We now know that this packaging of trash in violation of the offering prospectus was known at the time it was done because testimony in front of the FCIC by Clayton under oath has documented same.  Further, FHLB lawsuits have documented that huge percentages of the loans in pools they were sold violated the guidelines in the prospectuses. Intentionally putting loans you know violate guidelines you claim the loans conform to into a security would appear to be securities fraud. 

  • Bill Black has repeatedly stated that the big banks were all run by management as "control frauds" - that is, they used accounting tricks to manufacture false profits which they then paid out in bonuses to top management and "talent."  The latest data, showing well over $100 billion in compensation for this calendar year, is evidence that this is still going on.  This continues unabated and was covered up with $700 billion of taxpayer funds along with "gun-to-the-head" accounting changes forced through FASB by Congress.

  • Foreclosuregate has documented hundreds of thousands of "robosigned" documents where the person attesting to the truth of the contents is a "special signer" that allegedly works for a dozen parties at interest yet doesn't seem to be paid by most (if any) of them, and sometimes is paid by both parties to a suit at once, a clear conflict of interest and disqualifying act, never mind that they never read the material attested to.  To add to it, notary signatures appear to have been forged.  That appears to be forgery, fraud upon the court, and perjury - all rolled into one.  Many people were evicted from their homes based on these documents.  Whether the homeowner was paying or not they are entitled to due process of law - a civil right guaranteed in The Constitution that is wantonly violated when "robosigned" documents are filed with courts.

  • It appears to now be established that at least some of the notes that are required to be conveyed in wet signature - that is, original documents - to the Trusts for these MBS never were.  If the note is not conveyed by the closing date of the trust, the securities issued are no good - they're an empty box and worse, are disqualified for IRS tax pass-through treatment.  This is not some pesky regulator's rule, this is black-letter IRS code.   I have on good information and belief from multiple original sources as well as media reports that the notes are in fact sitting in originator's warehouses or were intentionally destroyed.  Indeed, in 2009 it was confirmed that Florida Banks intentionally destroyed originals.  There are thus no endorsements and the trustees do not have the notes.  How is this not "Tax Fraud" along with fraud upon the purchasers of those MBS when you represented in the Prospectus and/or Pooling and Servicing agreements that you had actual conveyance of the notes?

  • There is also a competing theory that the notes weren't assigned because MERS was used to try to dodge REMIC rules - that is, at default the note would be assigned to the lower-rated tranche that is to bear the loss.  However, this also appears to contravene IRS regulations, and worse, they still don't have the original paperwork bearing the original conveyances as required.  To top it off some courts have held that since MERS never receives any payment stream or other pecuniary interest in the mortgage it cannot be a grantee - that is, the assignment is invalid.

  • Banks have hired people to go "secure" property they have no legal right to enter.  As a consequence people have had their homes broken into and locks changed even though no foreclosure action had yet given the bank possession, and in at least one case no foreclosure was active against the property at all.  This is a felony - breaking and entering - as the person being hired has no legal right to be there nor to enter the premises.

  • Banks conspired with corrupt officials in Jefferson County Alabama on their sewer system and the result has been cost overruns that have hit the population with an escalation in sewer costs of more than four hundred percent.  Several officials have been convicted or pled guilty to crimes, but not one bank officer or bank has been indicted, even though the record appears to show, and it has been reported in the media, that at least one bank was "bought off" by another to prevent it from competitively bidding the debt contracts!  That sure looks like bid-rigging and bribery at minimum - all forms of fraud.

  • Friday a Tampa-area mortgage banker went to prison for up to 15 years for 150 fraudulent loans.  On the same day Angelo Mozilo was fined $67 million, but will only pay $20 million himself - Bank of America will pay the rest. Mozilo will keep more than $100 million he gained from knowingly selling his Countrywide stock while the all of the above was going on.  Sarbanes-Oxley required him to know of these frauds, both perpetrated on others and in control of the firm, and carries criminal (imprisonment) penalties.  Yet Mozilo skates with a fine where he pays less than a third of it himself, he keeps nearly all of the loot, and a guy who executed just one hundred and fifty (not the millions that Mozilo did) fraudulent loans goes to prison for 15 years.   That's outrageous - if the Tampa guy got 15 years, why didn't Mozilo get 150 or more?

  • The Federal Reserve has responded to the "malaise" caused by these frauds not with enforcement actions against the banks but rather by intentionally destroying the return available to savers on fixed incomes, attempting to force the people to pay for the banker's schemes.  They even admit intending to force people to spend instead of save, and to "force them out the risk curve" - that is, force people to risk losing their wealth in a stock market collapse so as save those who committed the acts above.  This is an outrage and one that our government has every right and ability to put a stop to right now - but instead of doing so, they smugly let Bernanke talk about "Quantitative Easing" while grains skyrocket in price - basic foodstuffs that everyone needs, and those on fixed incomes are especially hard-pressed to absorb.

  • In addition The Federal Reserve's acts have destroyed capital formation.  With the threat of monetary debasement, inflation, and no intent or action to stop the above schemes and scams nobody in their right mind would place their capital at risk to create jobs when they are forced to deal with a banking system and banks that have a track record of stealing anything that is not nailed down so they can bonus it out to their "talent."

There has been no criminal prosecution of any of these frauds or schemes - not even the outrageously easy to prove ones such as the "robosigning", where each individual act constitutes a separate offense and documentation of the event has been available in the form of depositions for months

There has been no demand from our Congress or President to Ben Bernanke to stop with his monetary debasement and instead clamp down on those who committed the above acts. 

There has also been little done on the state level, especially in those states that allow for non-judicial foreclosures such as Michigan and California.  Banks and lenders are allowed to foreclose with impunity without ever having to show any proof of anything in a court of law.  There is every reason to believe that the rather underhanded attempt by Congress to enact HR 3808, which passed through both Houses of Congress in record time, with no debate on a voice-only vote was meant to force judicial states to accept electronically signed affidavits from non-judicial states.

So here's my question America: Why do we put up with this?

We have heard empty promises for years.  Instead of real action what we get is dog and pony shows, exemptions from the rules, regulators who are left in their positions after they help banks back-date deposits (and thereby increase FDIC losses), regulators willfully ignoring bad lending and government lawsuits to prevent the states from doing their job of protecting the citizens.  Instead of regulating our Treasury Secretary and Federal Reserve Chair corral Congress in a room in the dark of night and threaten literal tanks in the streets if they do not bail out the very firms that committed these acts and are now about to fail as a consequence!

If the government is going to be part of an organized looting operation, including literal threats of martial law imposed on the citizens, then for the citizens to ask the government for help and protection is nothing more than a waste of time.

We keep hearing about "Task Forces" and "the government is looking into it."  They've had more than three years to look into it, and more than six since the FBI warned.  There has been no effective action and I maintain that so long as we the people allow the government to say things instead of doing them, that's exactly what will happen and you, the common citizen, will continue to get hosed.

If the politicians and law enforcement will not act on the above abuses and in fact promote and protect them then one must ask: Do the people have effective non-criminal recourse on their own?

I believe they do.

What if you refused to do business with the banks - at all - until actual, effective action and redress of these grievances occurred?

There has already been a "Move Your Money" attempt.  That's good. 

What's better is refusing to pay. 

At all. 

Think it though folks - a huge percentage of people in this country are, from a Bankruptcy perspective, judgment proof.  They live hand-to-mouth, their house is underwater or they rent, and they have little or no assets other than in a retirement account - which can't be seized in a Bankruptcy.  In some states wages cannot be garnished, and in many cases a Chapter 7 bankruptcy can clear your debts.  It's the dirty secret that corporations use to restructure or clear their debts whenever they get in a bind - even if the reason they're there is their own foolishness.

Why shouldn't you do the same thing?

If you're in that position what's to be lost if you tell the banks to stick it where the sun doesn't shine?  Your FICO score?  That's going in the toilet anyway if you can't pay, right?  If you're $100,000 underwater on your house, have no equity in anything beyond a retirement account and live hand-to-mouth what's to lose?  While taking on debt with no intent to pay is fraud, choosing not to pay at a later date is not a crime, and in a Bankruptcy much - if not most - of your debt is in fact wiped out.

Yes, you will lose the house you can't pay for anyway.  You might lose the car that you're probably $10,000 or more upside down on.  But you'll also lose the debt.  Declaring bankruptcy is a serious matter (and giving the finger to your creditors is likely to wind up there) but if you're scraping by with your fingernails, given what we know about the banking institutions in this nation and our government's refusal to protect consumers and stop the screwing you are taking literally on a daily basis, why are you putting up with it when you don't have to?

Consider this - why would you continue to do business with an entity you judge to be unethical? 

Whether you agreed to pay isn't material any more than it was for the Mortgage Bankers Association, which appears to have jingle-mailed their headquarters building! 

Again: Why should you behave any differently than the example they set for you?

I argue that you have no ethical or moral requirement to behave ethically with an entity that intends to screw you via any means it can manage to legally get away with.

If the government won't stand up and perform it's duty, then it's up to the people to decide - do you want to keep being ripped off on a serial basis along with having your retirement repeatedly trashed while the so-called "regulators" laugh with the banksters and thumb their noses at you, or are you going to go get some legal advice to figure out if you really are judgment proof (for a whole lot of people the answer is "yes") and if you are stand up and say "No More Damnit!" - and pay NOTHING?

One of the two most-liberating words in the English language is "You."  I'm sure you can figure out what the other one is.

I believe it is time for each and every one of us to individually, having consulted with professional legal and accounting advice, to evaluate the above, it's impact on our lives, the costs and benefits of telling the banks to go screw, and whether we, personally, are going to allow it to continue - or whether we're going to send back our bills for debts to those institutions with a picture of our middle finger enclosed.

Discussion below (registration required to post)
 

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User Info Charges And Specifications: An Open Question in forum [Market-Ticker]
Sangell
Posts: 379
Incept: 2009-08-16

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I'm worried that the NY FED, Blackrock, PIMCO 'put back' is going to be a big swindle that is up and running first for that very reason. If these guys can work a deal with BofA then that will be the protocol every other investor will be forced to adhere to.

It makes no sense for Blackrock/BofA to be plaintiff and defendant in a suit as they are one and the same. Same with the NY FED and PIMCO. These are not 'investors' seeking redress from fraudulent securities but actors in the game trying to rig it.
2banana
Posts: 337
Incept: 2008-02-25

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Quote:
It's the dirty secret that corporations use to restructure or clear their debts whenever they get in a bind - even if the reason they're there is their own foolishness.


To be fair - when a business does this it takes the risk of liquidation and most/all of the top managers get the boot. But the point is well taken.

smiley
Bluebird
Posts: 1380
Incept: 2008-05-02
Silver
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When you say refuse to do business with banks, are you also saying to refuse to do business with Credit Unions?

Some Credit Unions are listed in the MERS Member Banks (5,199 total)
http://chinkinthearmor.net/Member_Banks_....

Those of us who use TreasuryDirect.gov, need a bank or credit union to link up with, unless there is another way to redeem Treasury Bills without a bank or credit union?


Etz
Posts: 13888
Incept: 2007-06-26
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LA
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In the words of the banksters' favorite puppet,

Keep moving forward Karl! smiley


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Legal chicanery and beneficent darkness are the banker's stoutest allies - F.Pecora.

Economic4caster
Posts: 121
Incept: 2008-12-10

In the fetal position!
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I think people still believe that we will some how pull out of this mess. Most people don’t have a clue about how screwed up things are. I can’t even get friends and family to pull their money out these corrupt banks and put it in a credit union. They say it is too much of a hassle, or they have been banking with B of A for twenty years. The only thing that will wake people up is when this whole thing collapses around them, but by that time it will be too late! The banks will keep milking the system and the people all the way to the very end.

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Irishsamurai
Posts: 1150
Incept: 2008-11-03
Green
GA
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If you're going to call for a national strike on the banks, why not kill the enablers too ...

Everyone stop paying income taxes at the Federal level ...

Again, this idea that Wall Street is somehow worse than D.C. is ludicrous ... the banks are only enabled to do what they do through the lawmakers and their one-sided policies in D.C. and if they won't stop spending, we should stop funding D.C. as well ...

Still pay your state and local municipalities ... but starve the Federal leviathan ... no more income taxes from independent contractors and small business owners ... if one of us doesn't do it, they win ... if we all stopped, we win ...

Otherwise, great ticker Karl.


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“Why is it the ship beats the waves when the waves are so many and the ship is one? The reason is that the ship has a purpose.” - Churchill

Reason: typo
Anti
Posts: 4282
Incept: 2007-10-09
Silver
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I don't know about the different types of bankruptcy however if someone is out of work, isn't it true that they would be more likely to be able to discharge their debts completely versus having some partial payment plan imposed on them?

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Health is better than health insurance
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Over the past 60 years, thousands of people have used the Gerson Therapy to recover from so-called “incurable” diseases such as cancer, diabetes, heart disease and arthritis.
Photopro
Posts: 638
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Banned for spam signature
Banned
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Irish +1 yep, We should all stop doing business with the Fed Gov. as well

Also, I know people that didn't even waste time with bankruptcy, they just stopped paying period.

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Mschemeng
Posts: 180
Incept: 2010-10-03

Toronto ON
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http://4closurefraud.org/2010/10/19/full....
if anyone needs a good laugh, take a look at Wells Fargo robosigner deposition (remember they don’t have any issues with foreclosure process, but this woman signed 500/day)…it gets really good pass 40page mark… SNL couldn’t write it better…Robosigner, believes that if Wells Fargo is a servicer of the mortgage, that means that they are working on the file ( foreclosure file)…every person that singed for Wells Fargo, signed as Vice President, but there are like 5 Vice Presidents in group of 13 document processors (and that’s all they were…document processors)…she had no idea what she was signing from legal prospective (many funny answers)… SNL should really do a piece on this, no writers needed!
Tienkou
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Connecticut
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Irish, your suggestion about not paying the IRS will lead to some serious problems. But there is another way, under-withhold and then file quarterly and pay. The disruption in cash flow to Fed.Gov will be a problem for them.

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Barack Hussein Obama - The last President of the First American Revolution.
The US Congress has abdicated its role as a governing body.

The most dangerous man is the one with nothing left to lose. Our government is making more of them everyday.
Iou
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The Twilight Zone
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I agree. It's time we start playing the game by their rules. Send the banksters a big **** sandwich every month. Until the fraud is prosecuted and this mess is clean up no more mortgage payments. Eat that ****!

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"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."- Frédéric Bastiat

Boshaugh
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how much credit card debt would it take for a bankruptcy to make sense?
Irishsamurai
Posts: 1150
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Tienkuo,

Quote:


Irish, your suggestion about not paying the IRS will lead to some serious problems.



If 500K small business owners stopped paying their quarterly income taxes on January 15th 2011, you are exactly right that would lead to some serious problems ...

The IRS does not have the manpower to overcome that kind of message ...

500K businesses is less than 10% of all small businesses in the country ... just think what would happen if 20 million independent contractors did the same thing ...

Again, you're right. If you do it alone, you die in Tiananmen Square ... but if 19.999 million of your countrymen join you ...


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“Why is it the ship beats the waves when the waves are so many and the ship is one? The reason is that the ship has a purpose.” - Churchill
Bohemian
Posts: 9658
Incept: 2010-07-27
Gold
California
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Quote:
So here's my question America: Why do we put up with this?


Stop blaming me for this, Karl. Stop blaming America. In case you didn't notice, we are heads down, scrambling to drive ourselves to work, make ends meat and live every day.

Exactly what do you want us to do? Kill our city council? Set bombs off at the SEC? Pull a Timothy McVeigh and blow up the nearest Federal Building?

Are we supposed to vote? Hell, you are going to write in 'Beelzebub' for governor. So am I! There are no choices, right? So that solves, what?

Short of dragging federal officials and politicians out of their offices and executing them or hanging them from the nearest tree, exactly what do you propose? The system, from lobbyists to Congress and president is working as intended for the last 50 years - the way 'they' intended it. 'We the people' had little to do with this bastardized form of government that benefits corporate America and pig men.

So since banks are lawless, are we supposed to be lawless, too?! Should we just say **** IT and grab the pitchforks, M16s and AK's and march the D.C.?

The SEC doesn't do ****. *check*

The FBI doesn't do ****. *check*

The Congress doesn't do ****. *check*

The president doesn't do **** *check*

The judges don't do ****. *check*

--

Joe Blow is going to prison in his third strike for robbing some old lady of $20. He will do 25 to life. Mizolo will do no time and pay a fine not even 1/4 of what he has in his pocket from the scam that literally robbed America. You lowballed that number. His profit was over $400 million on cash and stock options, not including a pension.

I'm supposed to fix this how? March? Protest? Or is this the part where we actually get down to killing a mother ****in' banker for disobeying the laws of the land? I mean you have proven it, right? So what are my options? The banks, the Fed, the politicians, the enforcers and the justice system and courts don't do ****. Why would they? It's their own private Ponzi. Voting doesn't do ****. Do you hear the Tea Party candidates squawking about the mortgage fraud mess? Anyone? Alan Grayson and Nancy Pelosi? No thanks. I'll pass on those two retards.

The entire system is rigged.

So my options are .... move, kill some bitches and go to prison or watch the system implode and burn some IRS tax forms?

--

Read the signature, ironically by Nixon. Solutions aren't the answer. There are no solutions. We are ****ed and Costa Rica ain't such a bad place to retire.

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"The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice; you have owners. They own you. They own everything." - George Carlin

Salt
Posts: 191
Incept: 2010-05-28

NC
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"your suggestion about not paying the IRS will lead to some serious problems."


Such as?

Do "we the people" want to send 'them' a message?

As I recall, they work for us.


And Bohemian gets a gold star.

Irishsamurai
Posts: 1150
Incept: 2008-11-03
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GA
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@Salt

Quote:


As I recall, they work for us.



EXACTLY.

This is why when I go into the DMV and the lady gets belligerent with me, I don't say "yes ma'am" ... I say "I pay your ****ing salary ... where's your supervisor?" ... and if they're belligerent with me, we go up another chain ... every government worker earns a living on my productivity by sticking their hands in my pockets ... they work for me, they work for you, we don't work for them. It is high time we make this clear ...

Folks, the whole idea of why we have a government has been bastardized by the bankers, by the leech****s, by everyone who is looking for something for nothing. Not to channel (see summon) Bezzle here ... but he's right (and no he's not paying me to say that) to an extent ...

We get and PAY for the government we deserve ... and if the service/product sucks, we should stop paying (or pay less) ...

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“Why is it the ship beats the waves when the waves are so many and the ship is one? The reason is that the ship has a purpose.” - Churchill

Tickticktick
Posts: 119
Incept: 2008-11-23
Green
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And now, we present a brief musical interlude from the ho-hum, garden-variety, day-in and day-out type of wanton and systemic fraud, avarice, and mendacity that so brightens the hearts and adds joy and a spring to the step of TF'ers everywhere, and quickly present a brief peek behind the curtains under the big-top tents.......

"The Foreclosure Crisis: Punchline to a Michael Lewis Joke from 2008?

http://www.deepcapture.com/is-the-forecl....

Quote:
“...In late 2008 Michael Lewis wrote a Portfolio article (“The End“) weaving together a story line concerning a then-recent lunch between himself, Michael Lewis, and John Guttfreund of Salomon Brothers and Liar’s Poker fame (thus, arguably, nemeses), and another concerning Steve Eisman, a money manager who bet heavily against the MBS market. The climax of this latter story runs as follows:

"That’s when Eisman finally got it. Here he’d been making these side bets with Goldman Sachs and Deutsche Bank on the fate of the BBB tranche without fully understanding why those firms were so eager to make the bets. Now he saw. There weren’t enough Americans with ****ty credit taking out loans to satisfy investors’ appetite for the end product. The firms used Eisman’s bet to synthesize more of them. Here, then, was the difference between fantasy finance and fantasy football: when a fantasy player drafts Peyton Manning, he doesn’t create a second Peyton Manning to inflate the league’s stats. But when Eisman bought a credit-default swap, he enabled Deutsche Bank to create another bond identical in every respect but one to the original. The only difference was that there was no actual homebuyer or borrower. The only assets backing the bonds were the side bets Eisman and others made with firms like Goldman Sachs. Eisman, in effect, was paying to Goldman the interest on a subprime mortgage. In fact, there was no mortgage at all. ‘They weren’t satisfied getting lots of unqualified borrowers to borrow money to buy a house they couldn’t afford,’ Eisman says. ‘They were creating them out of whole cloth. One hundred times over! That’s why the losses are so much greater than the loans. But that’s when I realized they needed us to keep the machine running. I was like, This is allowed?’”


...If Lewis was right, banks packaging up mortgages did not just do a sloppy job in the packaging. They were also selling those packages several times over. Which, to readers of DeepCapture.com, may sound familiar. If this is really what is happening down below, how would things appear on the surface? Like this: a bunch of lawyers representing the interests of owners of these “mortgage”-backed securities would be going into court trying to foreclose on homes, but not be able to establish clear chain of title. Which is precisely what is happening. That’s not the same as saying it is why it is happening. However, if Lewis’ story about Steve Eisman is correct, then eventually this would have to happen. Whatever the cause (or amalgam of causes) of this foreclosure crisis, its effects could ripple into our financial system in a way that some say will become catastrophic. Banks which believe that millions of people owe them money suddenly realizing that no specific people owe them money while millions of borrowers suddenly realize they don’t owe money to any specific bank; banks suspend foreclosures, but people thrown out of their homes by banks who lacked chain of title form classes to recover what is rightfully theirs; title insurance becomes impossible on a non-negligible fraction of homes. Etc…"



P.S. anyone who hasn't read the entire Michael Lewis article "The End" is simply missing a huge piece of the puzzle.

http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/na....
Salt
Posts: 191
Incept: 2010-05-28

NC
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How many people read the Ticker? It's presumed that each person is somewhere around 7 times removed from any other person in the world. Now, if just two iterations out of readers of other blogs pointing back to this blog stopped all contact with the federal government, how many might that be? Three iterations?

Asdqwe
Posts: 132
Incept: 2010-06-18


Banned
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Ah-hah "complexity" - a lot of us are going to die due to complexity. Get used to it. And yes I am going to call my "representative" and tell him he is a traitor to this country if he doesn't move to abolish the Fed - blah,blah put him on the watch list....blah, blah.

I'm fairly drunk now and hopefully drunker when they drag me away from my family.
**** everyone that allowed our government to reach this stage.....
Halfbrite
Posts: 2459
Incept: 2008-10-13
Green
Arizona via California
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KD said:
Quote:
I argue that you have no ethical or moral requirement to behave ethically with an entity that intends to screw you via any means it can manage to legally get away with.

If the government won't stand up and perform it's duty, then it's up to the people to decide


Yup. Getting really close to deciding myself. I've paid bills twice a month, on the 1st and 15th for many years, have perfect credit, have had many accounts "paid as agreed" for 20 years or more.

I just paid all my bills on Oct 15. Nov 1 ? your guess is as good as mine, but I'm getting really close to saying "screw it" and going "off grid". Strange times indeed.


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"That which cannot continue, will not continue. Brace for impact!"
Asfg3
Posts: 158
Incept: 2008-08-29
Green
South Florida
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This is so ugly. I believe that today's announcement regarding BAC, PIMPCO and Blackrock is some kind of false flag. Something dark is being planned behind the curtain again, but I have no idea what it might be. You can be assured it will be us who picks up the tab once again.

As Karl stated, those who committed this fraud have already received their bonuses and big paychecks so that when the SHTF they'll be long gone. That's a done deal.

I have been begging my friends who have lost their jobs and are underwater with their mortgages to seek legal council...they won't listen. They keep making mortgage payments and living in fear. I'm going to try to write a form letter so that they can write to their banks and ask for a copy of the notes. Maybe that's a start.

God help this country.
Jal
Posts: 512
Incept: 2009-03-25

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You listed 11 points where someone else has had control of the fulcrum.

Without that control, you are powerless.

Find it!
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Give me a fulcrum, and I shall move the world.- Archimedes of Syracuse
Uwe
Posts: 6428
Incept: 2009-01-03
Gold A True American Patriot!
19446
Online
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KD wrote..
If the government is going to be part of an organized looting operation


Government is an organized looting operation, almost by definition.

What's surprising is how much competition they have been willing to tolerate lately. smiley

-Uwe-


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“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” - John Locke
Bohemian
Posts: 9658
Incept: 2010-07-27
Gold
California
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How soon we forget ...

--
A pilot furious with the Internal Revenue Service crashed his small plane into an Austin, Texas, office building where nearly 200 federal tax employees work on Thursday, igniting a raging fire that sent massive plumes of thick, black smoke rising from the seven-story structure.

Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo said the incident was a single act by a sole individual, who appeared to be targeting the federal building. He refused to classify it as terrorism.

"I call it a cowardly, criminal act and there was no excuse for it," Acevedo said at a news conference.

The FBI identified the pliot as Joseph Stack, a 53-year-old software engineer. Stack was confirmed dead, but his body has not yet been recovered.

---

I contend there was an excuse for it. See above.

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"The politicians are put there to give you the idea you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice; you have owners. They own you. They own everything." - George Carlin
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