"Violence will always be done in the name of religion."

As my filipina friend said,

"Islam is a cult that thinks murder glorifies their god."

Its fun how even people in third-world countries have a better grasp on what Islam is than our own leaders do.

Sushihorn. I don't give a flying **** what happens in the Middle East, I care about what happens in US borders.

"Sushihorn. I don't give a flying **** what happens in the Middle East, I care about what happens in US borders."

Does that mean you support our borders being policed and armed like they should be?

Oh wait, that would be "racist" according to liberaltarianism.

Chronobound, you are wrong. I DO support policing our borders and so does Ron Paul and many libertarians. I don't think you've even bothered to look it up. You are confusing liberals with libertarians.

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Or you can show where ALL MOOSLEMS/ragheads/camel jockies .............are dead-set on warring with U.S. and thus the collective punishment angle is worthwhile!

If this were our standard you'd be speaking either German or Japanese right now.

I for one am getting really tired of the double standard strawman. Debate on opinions is welcome, feature examples from the Manual of Dishonest Debating Techniques are not.

Nothing is absolute, other than your nutty suitcase of anthrax concoction.

Life doesn't work that way, Paul has a point and it couldn't hurt to TRY something different every 100 years or so.


You seem to not understand or care that we are not trying to win the fanatics over using foreign policy!

Terrorism is not war it's politics , it's what they have.

We want to keep as many on the fence as possible and you won't do that by burning up a couple of million once or twice a year!

Yes, we have in the past for maybe valid reasons meddled in other countries domestic affairs and as is the case in Iraq and Afg , we are not smart enough to actually control this meddling down the road, so it's better to not meddle.

SO, Paul is right, but that doesn't solve ALL the problems, but it helps more than hurts.

Someone brought up the Black VS. White issue to compare it to this.

Funny little thing you didn't learn in your state school...

MORE BLACKS OWNED SLAVES THAN WHITES.

yep. Owning slaves was actually NET NEGATIVE to European whites in society because it put immense downward pressure on wages and job availability.

hmm. kind sounds similar to immigration today?

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You seem to not understand or care that we are not trying to win the fanatics over using foreign policy!

Again, what did the people of the PHILIPPINES do to "deserve" to be slaughtered by Islamic fanatics with THEIR foreign policy?

Point to the acts, retract the bull****, or depart. Your choice.

If this were our standard you'd be speaking either German or Japanese right now


bull****

To equate WW2 with 9/11 or anything since shows the height of your dishonest debating or a mind full of koolaid!


Slowly back away from the keyboard , reach down and pull your panties out of your ass.
Now, take a DEEP breath!

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To equate WW2 with 9/11 or anything since shows the height of your dishonest debating or a mind full of koolaid!

Enjoy the brief remainder of your stay.

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Chronobound, you are wrong. I DO support policing our borders and so does Ron Paul and many libertarians.

Ahh, there it is, the trump card ... Ron Paul is not dealing with the cancer! It has infected this country from within, and now we are seeing its effects on the patient. At what point does Paul get the cajones to remove the cancer from within our borders? His answer to the world's cancer is shut your eyes, pretend it doesn't exist and close the door to Islamic fascism.

Call me when your fearless leader grows a pair.

Again, what did the people of the PHILIPPINES do to "deserve" to be slaughtered by Islamic fanatics with THEIR foreign policy?

Point to the acts, retract the bull****, or depart. Your choice.



Karl??????????????

Surely you understood that the statement about the fanatics was saying that WE are not going to justify THEIR ACTIONS AND THAT THOSE FANATICS must be WIPED OUT.

Where I part ways is your call for, it seems, indiscriminate mass killing(STALIN) to make sure we get at the fanatics! I don't see the national threat to be at a level to justify that, maybe you do. Certainly not some kooks calling for a killing of a pastor who wants to burn books.

Is it true that according to Islam, if a man's father is a Muslim then he is a Muslim? In his heart of hearts, is Obama a Muslim?

That wasn't a multiple-choice test nor do you get more than one attempt at evading the answer.

Thus far Temujin (a.k.a. Genghis Khan) has been the only man capable of "conquering" these people. By all accounts that I have read, his methods were consider brutal, even for Mongols.

I see two potential paths here:
-Utter brutality, and submission
-Finding a new prophet to show them why they are wrong.


Be mindful of the atrocities which we have already committed in sanctions (Iraq after Bush Sr.), illegal wars, occupation of their holy lands, and our support of oppressive puppets to steal natural resources from underneath land owners without just compensation.

Pitting government against any religion, is a slippery slope for religious freedom, and for freedom from religion.

Fantastic Karl.

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Pitting government against any religion, is a slippery slope for religious freedom, and for freedom from religion.

It is not a religion once one sanctions murder in the name of your God.

We either draw that distinction and enforce it, or we submit. Those are the choices.

"I see two potential paths here:
-Utter brutality, and submission
-Finding a new prophet to show them why they are wrong."

Or.....

We could make sure not any more of them settle in Western countries and simply watch them blow each other up til their hearts are content.

Islam is only a problem in the West because Westerners have allowed Muslims to live in the West.

so it seems you people want to go to war with the religion of Islam. Wow, that's a great way to impoverish this country....

Now, here on Planet Earth, the WORKABLE solution is this:

1) Take all our military out of the Islamic nations and bring them home. If they want to kill their own in their own nations it's not my ****ing problem.

2) End our relationship with the Saudi Royal family and all these other nations.

3) Remove any and all foreign aid to Theocratic nations, including Israel. We actually give more aid to the Arab nations overall than Israel.

4) Prosecute banks who handle money for these terrorist organizations

5) Focus our resources on rooting out Al-Qaeda from WITHIN our own borders without turning this country into a police state.

6) Police and defend our own borders. If our military wasn't so thinly stretched out all over the world we would've had a MUCH better chance at stopping 9/11.

So now you are an expert in Theology too?

Jeeze, what drew from you this racist vitriol Karl?

I guess it doesn’t take much to if that is what one is at their core.

Good thing you are not a Tea Party candidate; you just lost the election! (according to your own hypocritical advice).

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he was threatened with death in official "fatwas" of the Muslim religion.

Your entire argument is based on there being a credible threat, not by some fringe element but by (many) mainstream Islam “officials” (as if there were any) and not just an isolated one.

You don’t even provide a single reference to it.

Yet this completely unsubstantiated, un-referenced non-credible assertion without citation invokes a non-stop stream of “uh huhs” from your cult members. Keep weeding out reasonable people with this crap and a cult indeed you will have.

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Stop this **** or we will answer their declaration of war with one of our own. And I said WAR, not "police action" as we've had since WWII.

What YOU are saying is a call to violence , especially in the context of the general atmosphere of Islamaphobia sweeping the nation. And I do provide the reference: http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=1.... I will argue the point from the prospective well articulated in your tickers: “We”=the U.S government; the U.S government is corrupt= therefore “we” as individuals, have the constitutional right to take the law into our own hands= therefore “we” as individuals ARE the government= therefore “we” are justified to out kill Muslims right now with our constitutionally protected right to CARRY guns in public.

What complete wingnuttery. No wonder we can never get anywhere as a nation.

Continuing:

So this “****” you speak of, if not a “credible threat”, is it not just an exercise of one’s freedom of speech?

You are correct in one thing; Islam should be banned if indeed it is what you think it is…in the official promotion of violence. However if you are wrong, it should be left alone. Period.

So where is your evidence?

You flunk 8h grade essay presentation. You present none whatsoever.

And who gets to decide this?

Not you.

The 9/11 wackos do no more to indict, try and convict the entirety of Islam any more than the KKK wackos indict, try and convict the entirety of Christianity. They have every right to build a mosque two blocks from Ground Zero. I think it may be bad idea from the perspective of Muslims as it may create more unpleasant associations between Muslims and 9/11…in the eyes of the racists…which may not be a good thing, but seeing as it is a fundamental right, they don’t need to apologize for the actions of these unassociated terrorists.

Until such time as not just you, but our society as a whole, through due process makes the sweeping determination that “all of Islam is fundamentally violent”, your threat as referenced above is every much a call to unjustifiable violence as any.

Pika Steph; I looked at your referenced video of the owner/promoter of the NYC mosque. There was nothing whatsoever threatening about what he was saying. He mentioned (the truth of) how politicians are radicalizing the plans for a simple mosque; in my opinion these politicians are the ones inciting violence. Just look at the article at http://www.breitbart.tv/ground-zero-mosq.... and the associated comments with there countless “I likes”. These are way more inflammatory, and violence inciting than anything that man said. When you see stuff like this, the word Islamophobia seems entirely justified.

You are going to have a very difficult time convicting the entirety of one of the world’s largest religions by the actions of a few. Ha ha ha ha. What fools; good luck.

Until that conviction is in, these people’s rights must be respected. Period.

Neither the few 9/11 terrorists nor some desperate Palestinian suicide bombers with nothing left to lose after having their homes bulldozed and having their families shot in the desert exactly as if they were rats, nor even dozens of “official” calls to violence does a damn thing to convict the other 1.2 to 1.57 billion Muslims living peacefully in the world any more the KKK convicts all or Christianity. Do you remember Christian radicals Pat Roberts and Jim Jones? As influential leaders, were they “officials” of the Christian faith? With this many Christians; is there really any “official” spokesman?. Same thing with the countless Muslims. Do you know how many clergy there are in the world that spout off nonsense? Do they represent the majority? Never have, never will. Pope Leo X put a warrant out for the death of excommunicated Catholic monk Martin Luther who got so mad he started the Protestant Reformation. Did the actions Pope Leo X convict the entire Catholic religion? Nope.

Karl, as much as you may wish it, you are not going to end the Muslim religion. Lol.

Contrary to what you seem to think, 1.2 to 1.57 human beings don’t express there most heart felt, profound conscience based beliefs for the purposes of violence. How could you espouse such utter nonsense?

Fact; the Muslim religion is at its essence; peaceful.

Muslims say:"Stop burning kuran or we will kill you"

As if they are not doing that already :) This is pure blackmail. Are they going to stop any more attacks? A big no. Is our army so weak that they can not take on these cowards?
Muslims should focus their energy to remove all violent language from their book.

Gen and all the others on here talking - What about the Phillipines and stuff? Generally when you look at the wars you can find where its done in the name of religion but really it was about power and money. Or maybe about a woman. I would guess in this case the root of the atrocities lies in something other than the religion, but is being carried out in the name of the religion.

I will grant that the Islamic people do act a little differently than most and could be doing it in the name of Allah. But I still bet there's a pigman of some sort who is making a profit off it somehow. Just my cynical nature I guess.

Ssg: AGAIN, THE PHILIPPINES.

All they did is PRAY, and it got them murdered.

LITERALLY all they did was PRAY.

The thesis that "if we leave them alone it will be ok" has already been debunked.

To Mango:
Hey, look its another "fruity" liberal who thinks he knows more than everyone else and does moral equivalency.

Newsflash, Western countries are by far the most tolerant countries on the planet and the only ones that allow immigration to the point of permanently changing their nation's demographics, yet these liberal will keep bringing up the past in order to justify our own ethnic cleansing. Pitiful, truly pitiful.

Gen, that's why I say we defend our own borders.

When they come here and commit acts of aggression, we kill them. But we don't go over there and kill them.