HomeDebtor Fraud Intentionally Unpunished
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2009-12-29 08:58
by Karl Denninger
in Housing
Ignore this thread
HomeDebtor Fraud Intentionally Unpunished
 

The scam during the housing bubble was to intentionally overstate income (and then take some sort of exotic loan) so as to hide the fact that you couldn't afford the house.  Your "escape" was that when (remember, houses never go down in price) the loan's "teaser" expired you'd just go refinance.  The banks loved it (they got to hit you for another round of fees and costs) and the liars loved it - they got to live in $500,000 houses on $50,000 of income - even if they'd never actually own the place.

This, by the way, is a federal offense (lying on a mortgage application) yet The FBI and other law enforcement officials were and are under explicit orders NOT to prosecute these crimes.

Now the scam is to understate your income so as to qualify for a "better" modification - and again, the government is refusing to enforce the law:

Until recently the rules were clear: if you grossly understated your income to qualify for the program, you had to restart the loan modification process. It made sense. After all, we got into this housing mess partly because too many people were dishonest about how much they made.

....

The government needs this program to work -- and fast. That's the only way to explain the Treasury Department's waiver of a requirement punishing borrowers who understate their income by 25 percent or more when trying to get a modification.

That means a borrower who had told a lender he made $75,000 but was found to make $100,000 doesn't have to restart the modification process. Under the waiver announced Dec. 16, that person now gets to continue the trial period instead of being rejected immediately.

Isn't that special?

Are you*****ed yet?  You should be.  This sort of game means that the "waterfall" that I posted before goes further down than it should for a given borrower:

Yep.

This is the reality folks: Your neighbor lied about his income to get his house in the first place.  He took out a loan he couldn't possibly repay on the original terms - an OptionARM or other "exotic" loan, and then (in many cases) HELOC'd out every penny possible and blew it on a Hummer, a Boat and a few exotic vacations.

This caused the "value" of your house to skyrocket.  Cities and states of course got lots of tax revenue as a consequence of these higher "values."

But these "values" were not real.  They were a fraud.  Remember that a transaction requires a willing (and able) buyer and seller.  Without a willing (and able) buyer, the price does not go up.

When the Ponzi ran out of suckers, people started to default en-masse.  The government panicked - so-called "wealth" was disappearing, and in addition cities and states saw their "revenue" disappear as those who can't pay mortgages don't pay property taxes either.

So government rides to the rescue with an alleged plan to help those who are at risk of losing their house due to unemployment and other effects not of their own doing.

What happens?  The very same people who played grift and scam on the way up do it again on the way down. 

The felonies they commit are charged not to them, but to you - by government policy.

This is not a "lie" folks - it's a crime.  A crime that our government is not only willfully ignoring but is and has been encouraging, and forcing you, the honest American, to pay for.

And let's be clear: while it is a "dirty secret" the US Attorney's Manual says:

Prosecutions of fraud ordinarily should not be undertaken if the scheme employed consists of some isolated transactions between individuals, involving minor loss to the victims, in which case the parties should be left to settle their differences by civil or criminal litigation in the state courts. Serious consideration, however, should be given to the prosecution of any scheme which in its nature is directed to defrauding a class of persons, or the general public, with a substantial pattern of conduct.

Got it?

If you lie on your mortgage, the government doesn't care - even though that was and remains one of the primary causes of both the housing bubble and now is preventing the market from being marked back down to actual fair value and clearing.

The government has in fact declared itself as an accessory to millions of felonies both before and after the fact.

Discussion below (registration required to post)
 

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User Info HomeDebtor Fraud Intentionally Unpunished in forum [Market-Ticker]
Abn0rmal
Posts: 9261
Incept: 2009-01-10
Green A True American Patriot!
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US Attorney's Manual wrote..
the parties should be left to settle their differences by civil or criminal litigation in the state courts
Given the vast number of cases doesn't it make more sense for the states to handle it just due to the fact that there are more courts at the state level?

Plocequ1
Posts: 526
Incept: 2009-08-23

Boston,Mass
Banned
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We live in an era that unfortunately spits on the Constitution and breaks laws and it will continue. As long as the ponzi scheme is kept alive and well, No one is going to do ****. The reality of Mathematics will be the only thing that stops this bull****. It will continue until the mathematics say it cant continue anymore..Either that or the USA goes bankrupt.. Which ever comes first

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"Man looks into the Abyss, and there's nothin' staring back at him. At that moment, man finds his character, and that's what keeps him out of the Abyss"... Lou Mannheim, Wall Street."Its a huge **** sandwich and were all gonna have to take a bite"... Lt. Lockhart , Full Metal Jacket.

Goforbroke
Posts: 5347
Incept: 2007-11-30
Gold A True American Patriot!
Just call me 'Comrade'
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Given the new intent of HAMP to reduce mortgage principal on FNM and FRE loans with unlimited resources/tax dollars http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fannie-...., I don't see anything that could possibly derail all of this nonsense.

Realistically, what would it take to bring the system back to reality?

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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo

Jjm
Posts: 187
Incept: 2009-11-10

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A crack addict will do almost anything to get one last rock in the pipe. Any cop will tell you that the first, second, and third thing a criminal does when caught is tell lies, even when the lies are obvious.

This is depressing sh*t, so here's something funny from Dave Barry:

http://www.miamiherald.com/living/column....

Happy New Year everybody!


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"In a mania, all investments are at the mercy of the greater fool. As in: if you can’t find one, you’re it."
-- Alex Daley

Mayorquimby
Posts: 13909
Incept: 2008-09-18
Green
The Archaic Past
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Accountability and morality only exist in fantasy land. America, 2010 will be much closer the wild west as depicted in movies. It's everyone for themselves.

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They who wish to hurt you, work within the law.
- Morrissey

Gold is theft.
Tjfxh
Posts: 6
Incept: 2009-09-02

Iowa City, IA
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The kicker is "exotic loans." The financial cycle could not have progressed to late-stage Ponzi finance (in Minsky's sense) if it were not for these "exotic" arrangements and lack of due diligence in investigating loan applications. The problem was not with "isolated individuals," but with the entire FIRE sector, which was colluding on the predatory practices that were the real foundation of the Ponzi finance that is continuing because when it stops, the game is up and we spin off into debt deflation and plunge into Great Depression II, which is the worst nightmare of Geithner, Summers, and Bernanke. The US and world aren't out of the woods yet, and there will be no major reforms or investigations while we are still very much on the edge of catastrophe.
Eaglewwit
Posts: 6054
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Green
SoCal
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This whole thing is a bailout of the big banks holding FNM anf FRE paper, who will be paid at par for questionable mortgages. Then to keep the populace quite they through this bone there way. The only problem with the scheme is that is punishes the prudent. However they will continue to do it until stopped by BONDZILLA. Where in the hell are you BONDZILLA?
Jnojr
Posts: 784
Incept: 2008-09-18
Green
San Diego, CA
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Umm, isn't this the type of behavior that is applauded by some here? "Screw the banks, you don't need to be honest, they lied to you so you lie to them! Do anything and everything you want in order to walk away from your debts, delay, obfuscate... it's all good!"?

What's good for the gander is good for the goose, folks. You can't cheer dishonesty out of one side of your mouth and then condemn it out of the other.
Maddymax
Posts: 4664
Incept: 2008-02-26
Green
PONZIVILLE
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who ever pays their mortgage is a fool

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Ben's policy will lead to wage deflation and commodity inflation which will lead to the Greatest Depression and Uprising Ever.
Who needs TA we got POMO
Bluebird
Posts: 1381
Incept: 2008-05-02
Silver
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It wasn't just the applicants who lied when they filled out the mortgage application. There were also loan processors who lied when submitting the applications for approval. The processors changed the applicant's income to be ensure the applicant was approved. Fraud was, and still is, everywhere.
Bustedbuck69
Posts: 479
Incept: 2009-11-10
Green
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What a ticker Gen. To you and yours a happy, healthy, and prosperous New Year. May a switch turn and magically all that you so eloquently write about would be changed to the Magic Kingdom syndrome, where upon the good is rewarded and the pernicious culprits would be hauled off to an 8 X 8, with a nasty cellmate. Ain't goin to happen, such is the puerile nature of wishes.

Quote:
---So government rides to the rescue with an alleged plan to help those who are at risk of losing their house due to unemployment and other effects not of their own doing.

What happens? The very same people who played grift and scam on the way up do it again on the way down.

The felonies they commit are charged not to them, but to you - by government policy.---


Heads they win, tails you lose. Again, and again, and again, the prudent, those with integrity, those with a moral compass genetically programed, and or programmed by parents who had a firm grasp of right and wrong, those who are hard wired to make good on their words(on a hand shake), and those who take full responsibility for their behavior, actions and reactions, GET SCRE***. The obsequious financiers are certainly trying to kill the goose that lays the golden egg, correction that goose is done, finished, ended, terminar, fait accompli, expletio, etc. This is the road to extinction, it's just a matter of when.

How perfect that last sentence from the above quote. This playing field is not level, and further more the parasites make the rules and change them to fit their needs, and make no mistake about it the giant blood sucking squid is winning.smiley

From Mayor:

Quote:
Accountability and morality only exist in fantasy land.---


No ---- not true. There in lies the problem, a huge morally programmed sheeple(if you will), trying to survive in white shark infested waters, as the captain of the dive boat heads to harbour for drinks and a four star meal, of course on the divers tab. smiley

PS---Gen, may your following increase 100K fold and turn into a real and lawful force for real change. To all the Ticker contributors and readers---ONLY THE BEST.

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"---the politicians---they think the laws of mathematics are suggestions." K. Denninger

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand exponential function." Al Bartlett

Glennb6
Posts: 480
Incept: 2009-03-02
Green
ne florida
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Eaglewwit,

"Where in the hell are you BONDZILLA?"

Who the hell is John Galt ?



Is it a game of MAD with Bondzilla ?
Bustedbuck69
Posts: 479
Incept: 2009-11-10
Green
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US Attorneys manual:

Quote:
Prosecutions of fraud ordinarily should not be undertaken if the scheme employed consists of some isolated transactions between individuals, involving minor loss to the victims, in which case the parties should be left to settle their differences by civil or criminal litigation in the state courts.---


Ah well!!

Isolated transactions?

Involving minor loss to the victims?

Must be isolated ---- only cost $7,000,000,000,000.00smiley

Hardly a minor loss to the American taxpayer. I am getting used to bending over.smiley

entropy hard at work =
Quote:
5. Inevitable and steady deterioration of a system or society.
free dictionary

ya think! Sarcasm intended.smiley

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"---the politicians---they think the laws of mathematics are suggestions." K. Denninger

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand exponential function." Al Bartlett
Hihoherewego
Posts: 931
Incept: 2009-02-25

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In a fraudulent environment it's important to reward the stupid or else the
fraud will stop.



.............................

So much debt, so little time.................

http://www.usdebtclock.org/
Leonidas
Posts: 246
Incept: 2008-09-06
Green
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What may happen next given the progression of the waterfall and an expansion of policy that continues to punish the prudent and reward the debt abusers?
1. Capitalize arrears
2. Reduce interest rate
3. Extend loan term
4. Forbear principal

The waterfall suggests that it is logical for debt abusers to conclude that it is in their best interest to hold out for the next round of "**** the taxpayer".

Perhaps waiting for the inevitable....
5. Mortgage mulligan and a pony or finally,
6. A free house and a blow job

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I'd paint the ****ing ceiling on that one.

Genesis
11/30/2010
Expy
Posts: 14672
Incept: 2007-09-05
Green
Start the Demonization -Libtards!
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"Given the new intent of HAMP to reduce mortgage principal on FNM and FRE loans with unlimited resources/tax dollars http://www.marketwatch.com/story/fannie-.... I don't see anything that could possibly derail all of this nonsense.

Realistically, what would it take to bring the system back to reality?"


How about a collapse in incomes and revenues and the consequences thereof?


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"IT'S THE INCOME/CASHFLOW SILLY"! {c expy smiley} Where will incomes, wages, and profits/revenues come from to recover the economy after the spiral down? Certainly not the "New Service Economy". W/out massive new debt creation, [unlikely], and useful productivity, the public and business are probably screwed by a

Mdporter
Posts: 560
Incept: 2008-02-26

San Jose, CA
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I have given up all hope for justice. The losers are us, the honest people. The winners are the cheats, liars, and fraudsters, who are celebrated in Government and rewarded handsomely, using our tax money. We we complain we are told to go **** ourselves, over and over again. This was not how I was brought up

The only way this can change are if politicians who support fraud are removed, if people who obtained homes via fraud have them burned down, if we tar and feather, and basically take our country back, Since none of those things are going to happen anytime soon you might as well carry your own lube just in case the Government is behind you for another round of pumping.
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