THE MESS IS NOT OVER: EuroZone
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2009-12-17 08:02
by Karl Denninger
in Bonds
Ignore this thread
THE MESS IS NOT OVER: EuroZone
 

I keep trying to warn people.....

LONDON, Dec 16 (Reuters) - Standard & Poor's on Wednesday put about 1.46 trillion euros ($2.127 trillion) worth of covered bonds on credit watch negative or developing, based on new criteria for rating such securities.

$2.12 trillion worth of covered bonds?!

What is a covered bond again?

Covered bonds, usually rated triple-A, are regarded as low risk because they are backed by mortgage assets or loans that remain on the issuing bank's balance sheet, but the credit crisis prompted S&P to revisit the way it rated them because of concerns over what would happen in a bank default.

Oh, mortgages and loans eh?

"AAA" eh?

Is this sort of "AAA" the same sort that our subprime MBS got?

So let's see.  Instead of selling the loans we keep them and then sell bonds against them, thereby "covering" them with the "asset."  This works great until the underlying collateral quality goes to hell and the borrower defaults, at which point the bondholder has recourse against the issuing bank!

When that issuing bank is geared at 60:1 (as some in Europe are) guess what happens?

This is the definition of "AAA" right?  A bank that is geared up 30, 40, 50, 60:1 - and that's the ultimate recourse on the bond? 

How do you say "debt pyramiding" - an act that every competent underwriter or credit analyst knows is a serious risk?  But no!  We should rate this eurotrash "AAA" so we can find suckers, er, "investors", who will soak up this trash and make even more risky lending possible!

I think we need a new rating: TOP - for "Triple Ocular Penetration" (thanks to the forum but I can't find the person's login to credit him or her properly :-> ) - and we should definitely assign these "covered bonds" this new rating.

Oh and these crafty bankers would never get themselves into a duration mismatch problem would they?  You know, sell short-term bonds against 20 or 30 year loan obligations - thereby putting them at risk of a rollover problem (where rates have spiked in the interim), making them instantly underwater (and remember, they're levered 30, 40, 50 or 60:1 over there - with no transparency - too!)

The bonds have relatively short maturities, but the pool of underlying mortgages backing them are usually 25-30 years. This raised concerns that in a default the mortgages would not raise enough to repay the bonds.

Oh, they did do that.  Geez these bankers are really smart!

"Heh sonny, hold this thing for me while I pull the pin out.... and RUN!"

All the pumpers and media shills tried to tell us that the problems were behind us, and the economy and banking system would all be ok..... let's see, we have the PIIGS problem, we have Dubai, and now we have over $2 trillion of supposedly-"AAA" bonds that not only are the epitome of debt pyramiding but they've got duration mismatch problems - into an almost-certainly rising-rate environment - as well!

What could possibly go wrong?

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User Info THE MESS IS NOT OVER: EuroZone in forum [Market-Ticker]
Cobradriver
Posts: 90
Incept: 2009-08-04

Port Charlotte,Fl
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Is 2.1 trillion a lot? smiley

Chris

Reason: Add smiley...
Aja
Posts: 2591
Incept: 2008-03-19
Green
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It's only a credit watch not a downgrade, so it has no effect other than atmospheric right?
Bozonian
Posts: 19889
Incept: 2007-09-01
Green
Saratoga Springs, New York
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What could possibly go wrong? What could possibly be worse?

Get the government involved.

Now it's MUCH worse.

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Forget about blaming, fighting with, or crediting other people. The only real challenge in life, is with yourself. -- Me

Everything I write is my opinion and not to be considered proven fact. Nothing I write should be considered financial advice.
Xanares
Posts: 2595
Incept: 2008-11-10
Green
Between Sicily and Tunisia
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Karl, was wondering about your take on the theory that ECB's motives of lending based on all the trash were highly political as well, in the sense that banks would then be able to buy the government bonds needed to finance the enormous deficits basically most countries have now?

It makes sense logically, but not sure it entirely works that way. At least in EU, as banks are not forced to buy.
Goforbroke
Posts: 5347
Incept: 2007-11-30
Gold A True American Patriot!
Just call me 'Comrade'
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Haven't we been down this road before?

Why don't they hedge with some CDSs from AIG!

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We have met the enemy and it is us. -- Pogo
Vicious_cycle
Posts: 253
Incept: 2009-03-10
Gold
Chardon, OH
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Ooooh, "TOP bonds"!

Those sound great. Where do I sign?
Clumsygardener
Posts: 112
Incept: 2009-07-17

High Atop the Alleghenies
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LEE SENDS PICKETT INTO THE UNION CENTER: "What could possibly go wrong?"

THE GALLIPOLI CAMPAIGN: "What could possibly go wrong?"

KAISER WILHELM SHIPS LENIN TO PETROGRAD: "What could possibly go wrong?"

FRANCE HIDES BEHIND THE MAGINOT LINE: "What could possibly go wrong?"

OPERATION BARBAROSSA: "What could possibly go wrong?"

OPERATION MARKET GARDEN: "What could possibly go wrong?"

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For the love of money is the root of all evil...
Sangell
Posts: 379
Incept: 2009-08-16

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They're saying Greece is already defaulting. Its government run healthcare system has not yet implemented 'double entry accounting' and is not paying Euro
pharma companies. The military budget is off balance sheet and has defaulted on the German submarines it ordered and the government is doing nothing substantive to cut the budget. Oh yeah, there's going to be a problem.

Then there are the Swedish banks and their loans to Latvia, Estonian and Lithuanian homeowners. The Austrian ones with their loans to Eastern Europe and
the British ones with loans to Dubai.

Its a minefield over there and sooner or later one of those mines is going to go off and we may get quite a few secondary explosions. Hell the main powder magazine, the ECB, may detonate.
Viper
Posts: 1064
Incept: 2007-08-28
Green
Madison, WI
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I just can't help but think a good protest would be for people to start taking ****s in boxes and mailing them in to their mortgage lenders, banks, and CC companies as payment for their debts. LOL!

It's about the same thing as what's going on here.
Rutben
Posts: 1414
Incept: 2007-07-27
A True American Patriot!
Phoenix, AZ
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From Ask Fleck today, the Lord of the Dark Matter had this terse observation "the plumbing, especially in Europe, is quite dicey".
Enronium
Posts: 47
Incept: 2008-09-19
Green
Spain
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bilge

Sangell
Posts: 379
Incept: 2009-08-16

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Enronium, the Spanish covered bonds would seem secure in normal times but these are not normal times. I've heard the Spanish banks are holding foreclosed
property from the market even more than what American banks are doing. One might ask what would Spanish property values be IF big Spanish banks started to fail and the covered bond holders had to liquidate the banks REO?

Put this way, if Bank of America or Fannie Mae collapsed there would likely be a very large fall in home values as well.
Skipper
Posts: 61
Incept: 2009-03-05

England
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Just to add to the fun S&P downgraded Greece into the B's yesterday.

Tat668
Posts: 2240
Incept: 2007-09-09
Gold A True American Patriot!
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Quote:
Is 2.1 trillion a lot?


errr.... it's just a whole bunch of ZEROS behind the measly 2.1 smiley

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"Patience grasshoppers.... but your time to eat the bugs is coming......."- KD 9-1-2009

"This marks the beginning of the end."- Barack Obama 2-26-09
Spigot
Posts: 253
Incept: 2009-03-02
Green
North East
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These guys are in a global finacial war, folks. Power blocks represented by their financial elites are positioning themselves to **** over others in an attempt to cripple competing economies. War by any other means. Beats sending Armies, etc. The US is under attack via financial information systems. But I will have to say this, we started it (Goldman, et al). The rest of the world just decided to stop taking it any more.

Do you notice that within 1 week two alternative regional supra-currencies have been announced? (South/Central America and Persian Gulf) Do you think that has anything to do with toppling the US$ from its perch? Yep.

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Drip, drip, drip...
Phirang
Posts: 10157
Incept: 2008-10-25
Green
Flogging a "little person"
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If the GCC is so great, let's see how well their currency stands up to a massive short attack... hehe

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I'm not special, and I am not likely to accomplish anything extraordinary in my life. If you are reading this comment, the case is most likely that neither will you. http://www.cracked.com/article_18544_how-the-karate-kid-ruined-modern-world.html
Tat668
Posts: 2240
Incept: 2007-09-09
Gold A True American Patriot!
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I belief that there isn't any war that does not carries financial gain for the aggressor nation, whether is is with rifles, pitchforks, or financial tactics.

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"Patience grasshoppers.... but your time to eat the bugs is coming......."- KD 9-1-2009

"This marks the beginning of the end."- Barack Obama 2-26-09
Enronium
Posts: 47
Incept: 2008-09-19
Green
Spain
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bilge

Reason: Added more info
Musashi
Posts: 3835
Incept: 2007-11-06

Behind the Irony Curtain
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While I have no issues with the line of thought here, there is a counterpoint that also sounds reasonable.

http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-40-is-avai....

Wish I knew enough to guess who is right here.
Hihoherewego
Posts: 931
Incept: 2009-02-25

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Well Denninger, these guys have just about the same outlandish rosy outlook you do. Almost except for the gold thing that is.

Get a load of this................


http://www.leap2020.eu/GEAB-N-40-is-avai....

................

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Jhonab
Posts: 301
Incept: 2009-03-24
Green
Denmark
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QE has a lot of different shapes - the Brits did it over the counter and in the open, while the ECB and the FED has done it mostly through 'loan facilities' that of course accepted almost anything. But as Leicester points out in the other thread on European shenanigans, the central bank may call the loan and of course the bank will have to take back its collateral and pay if it doesn't want to go boom. Of course there may be a lot of gaming in this but frankly I'm a bit disappointed at the blameshifting here - ha ha, you European moreons are more in the **** than we American moreons.
I think that Karls overall take on this - the financial hooligans screwed us all and got rewarded by public bailouts whether American or European - is valid.
The general official murmur - that the ECB 'didn't pull their load regarding easing' - is bull****, they simply did it by accepting a variety of collateral that they of course didn't examine in any great detail as did the FED of course not either, when it was all about saving the world from impending disaster. And the ECB also backed individual European central banks when they bought mortgaged backed bonds and various securities to 'unfreeze' credit markets. The European easing is simply more difficult to track because it has some twenty independent central banks involved besides the ECB.
As Karl has shown in another Ticker, the US easing couldn't prevent credit formation from declining and of course the same goes for the Euro-zone - this is the mother of all deflations.

And I absolutely agree that European banks are highly leveraged with the giant Deutsche Bank being one of the most exposed.

As for Greece, the PM has promised to cut the public deficit to max 3% of GDP in 2013 ... asked how he has requested 3 months to figure it out. And remember about Greece - the current deficit is due to the Greek people being very hostile to the idea of taxation, and the Greek state is utterly behind the curve when it comes to collecting taxes. I'd say that Greek economy is made up of a fifty-fifty mix of taxed income and 'black' income. Therefore you should not expect the Greek people to riot. Public deficits are some stupid invention by the elite, why should Mithropopuolos in Thessaloniki care about that kind of nonsense? He takes cash, he pays cash.

Baldy
Posts: 7390
Incept: 2008-05-16
Silver
Pittsburgh
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Rep Frank said they will look at expanding covered bond market in the US next year.
Doomedfromuk
Posts: 9
Incept: 2009-08-26

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Question - should Barclays or HSBC get into trouble will the UK government attempt to bail them out as well. If so what happens to the £? Or are these banks to big to bail?? All quite worrying really.
Fraglord
Posts: 69
Incept: 2009-07-16

Dearborn, MI
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So the Euros are up to their necks in quicksand and we are only up to our shoulders saying "Ha ha losers we are sooooooooo much better off than you?" Great.

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Those who demand the most usually deserve the least.
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