El wrote..

Second, just because someone is a devotee to a theistic world view, does not mean that they are the moral equivalent of anyone else that also holds a theistic world view. This is the same crap that we had to endure from all the secular Lefties that told us for decades that a moral equivalence existed between the goals and methods of the USSR and the West.

Denounce, commit, denounce. Stellar.

Eleua

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Obama wouldn't have the stones to do it could cause a completely dillusional person to try to attack.

Stroke me harder Eleua Obama isnt some pacifist pussey like you I would want him to be. Remember he's expanding the war in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan and has threatened Iran several times. Obama is just part of the same club and is doing a good job continuing the "crusade" as Bush put it.

TJ: who in their right mind would fly a plane-load of people into a building? 19 lunatics did. They do not care if they die. Suicide bombings - figure it out.

"This sounds like a lot of Bush doctrine foreign policy and frankly Im not going to join a religious war."

Don't make me laugh - Bush's foreign policy was anything but a religious war. He bent over backwards to make that point. Please, no supposed moral high ground in your stance.

Any previous U.S. President would turn Iran, or any other nation that attacked us, into a glass parking lot.

But Obama? Don't make me laugh. As far as I'm concerned, he's on the other side.

1lumpsum

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True beliving Muslims, that's who! M.A.D is no a deterrente for them at all.

Self Suicide for a perceived greater cause is NOT a Muslim or even a religious issue. Were the Japanese of WWII Muslim? Were the Jews of the 50s doing suicide attacks fighting for Israeli independence Muslim? Hell are American soldiers Muslim for dying for a cause they feel is greater than themselves?

Sorry dude blanket accusations dont work with me there are Muslims and then there just are nuts. We can debate if Ahma.. is a nut but to blanket on Islam as a whole is just wrong and history will prove me right.

Anyone who thinks the current Administration would attack Iran in the same way we might think possible is delusional. The last pacifist jerk that held the WH had Iran sack the US embassy and all he did in response is send a bunch of helicopters into the desert to crash.

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Don't make me laugh - Bush's foreign policy was anything but a religious war. He bent over backwards to make that point. Please, no supposed moral high ground in your stance.

Oh really? I think the action and words of Bush and even some soldiers could easily be perceived as a religious war. You have soldiers in Afghanistan activly trying to convert Muslims to Christianity and you have Bush calling the war on terror a crusade. Perception is an interesting concept. Hmmmm....

Eisenhower titled his memoir of World War Two "Crusade in Europe." I guess this was religious war, too, since he used the dreaded "c" word. It was a poor choice of words by Bush, nothing more, and he never made the mistake again as far as I know.

Timbo wrote..

El wrote..

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Second, just because someone is a devotee to a theistic world view, does not mean that they are the moral equivalent of anyone else that also holds a theistic world view. This is the same crap that we had to endure from all the secular Lefties that told us for decades that a moral equivalence existed between the goals and methods of the USSR and the West.

Denounce, commit, denounce. Stellar.

I see it as:

Observe. Recall history. Draw relevance. Condemn.

YMMV

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Anyone who thinks the current Administration would attack Iran in the same way we might think possible is delusional

Oh? If you look at history it was always THE DEMOCRATS who got us into wars and policing the world. Now its a Neo Con talking point..... a talking point that is obviously oblivious to many on this thread...

El wrote..

Observe. Recall history. Draw relevance. Condemn.

Not to stray too far off topic -- and how is that USSR v. the West dichotomy working out, anyhow?

TJG: You don't know **** about Islam.

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Eisenhower titled his memoir of World War Two "Crusade in Europe." I guess this was religious war, too, since he used the dreaded "c" word. It was a poor choice of words by Bush, nothing more, and he never made the mistake again as far as I know.

But when you pair Bush calling it a crusade and then you have American soldiers actively trying to convert Muslims it kinda can be perceived by the radicals as "Hey look at the infidels, we told you they are trying to do a holy war on us... they are even trying to convert our people." Think perception, try to look at views from other peoples point....

Yes, perhaps you do have individual soldiers trying to convert Muslims - out of 150,000 troops in the Middle East there are probably some. But you do not have the U.S. government trying to convert them. Can you see the difference between the two? And none of them are saying convert or die.

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TJG: You don't know **** about Islam.

And yet you wont address what I said because you know what I said is right.... Am I wrong about what I said? Do other races and religions not use suicide attacks to achieve "an agenda that is bigger than them"?

Tjeffersonsghost:

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Were the Japanese of WWII Muslim?

That's a good point. No, the Japs weren't Muslim, however they did regard their emperor as a living god.

And their fanaticism is exactly why we had to use nuclear weapons against them. The alternative was to lose hundreds of thousands of American soldiers in an invasion, not to mention killing literally millions of Japanese in the process. (We were not at all interested in "winning hearts and minds" at that point.) In other words, the atomic bombs saved lives, and they saved more Japanese than American lives.

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And none of them are saying convert or die.

Ive never met one Muslim here in the US that has told me convert or die. Out of the 1.6 billion Muslims on earth how many of them tell people to convert or die? Probably just the radicals which is maybe .01 of .01%.

TJ, thanks for telling me everything about you simply by using the term "neo-con." It carries about as much weight as "bourgeoise capitalist" did when the communists where throwing that term about.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c....

http://www.spiegel.de/international/worl....

http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=64....

http://www.irnnews.com/news.asp?action=d....

These are just a few links but there are tons more out there. It takes some time and understanding of how these Iranian clerics think and act. If you do not understand their
eschatology then you would be of the mindset that these people are just puffing their chest out and spewing words only backed by no intended action. This is not the case. These clerics and Ahmadinijad are 12’ers. Their whole life has been devoted to fulfill the prophecies of the return of the 12 Imam.

Iran has had the capability to carry out an attack on American soil for some time. It is not a matter of IF it is a matter of WHEN. It is a chess game to them and they invented the game.

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TJ, thanks for telling me everything about you simply by using the term "neo-con." It carries about as much weight as "bourgeoise capitalist" did when the communists where throwing that term about.

SO what does me using the term "Neo Con" tell you about me. Please you're new on this site I want you to sum me up if you could. Am I a flaming liberal, am I a whacky conservative? Please enlighten me.

.01 of .01%? 19 of them found each other pretty quickly. Go to this website and see just how many suicide attacks were carried out in 2007, and then go look at all the other years.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attack....

Wow, you have been on this site a whole 9 days or so longer than I have. I read, but don't post often. Yea, I think that you are pretty much of a liberal.