the USPS has been pushing for a break on their pension costs for a while. Obama will concede and ask for an exception for them. Or, they'kk hike stamps another 2 cents, hastening their decline.

As for the volume drop, you couldn't be more right. The top postman (whatever his title) said a few months ago they were being hit on several angles: the recession, e-statements, e-mail, and lower housing density. Fuel costs were still high, and medical costs rapidly going up.

I figured where the 7 billion loss came from, the pension payment shows up on the current P&L.

Page 9 and 10 show how much they would have been in the red without the health pension payments.

edit: should say, in the black for the last two years, and in the red this year.

Very relevant ticker, Karl. This is a growing problem that we never hear about.

My sister works for an investment firm that manages two types of accounts:

1. University Endowments
2. Pensions for municipalities, governments, and other organizations.

I heard this from the horses mouth (well, my sister...she ain't no horse!): The USPS is far from being alone when it comes to underfunding of pensions. In fact, they are in better shape than most. There is a lot of pain out there not yet inflicted!

Pension plan assumptions have always been a farce. All it takes is one extended downturn to blow most of them up.

Noticed the amount of junkmail has been going progressively down the last 4 months or so. The amount of totally useless **** they used to deliver was probably half their biz.

The Postal Service is the only federal agency which has to prepay the health care and pension obligations.
A few years ago, upper management made the decision not to go after the parcel business, but instead sold their soul to the bulk mailers. The bulk mailers have gotten the American citizen to subsidize their business and filled your mailboxes with junk. The Board and the Postmaster General put bulk mailers first instead of the American public. If and when the Post Office goes under or is sold off, watch your shipping costs go through the roof.

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A few years ago, upper management made the decision not to go after the parcel business, but instead sold their soul to the bulk mailers.

A trend that they're desperately trying to reverse, but have found themselves in the position that they don't have adequate capital reserves to invest in the tracking technology demanded by the bulk of small business shippers. Their tracking service is more "door to door" and not able to provide in-route information.

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. The amount of totally useless **** they used to deliver was probably half their biz.

I've always wondered how successful this manner of advertising is.

I've got a trash can right under my mailbox and that stuff goes directly into the can unopened.

Three postcards from Cavallini today - The Biggest Cavallini Sale in History!!! - one 28 cents stamp, two 44 cents stamps. This example is not very efficient, and certainly not successful.

Naked Capitalism has done an OUTSTANDING job of drawing attention to this little-discussed aspect of this crisis.

My father retired from the phone company in 2001. Previously, in 2000, they converted his pension into ... a NASDAQ index fund!

Yep, he's broke.

Social Security is a bad idea but privatizing it was an even worse one. Pumping money from a Ponzi scheme into the banksters' pockets... thank goodness that never passed.

"A trend that they're desperately trying to reverse, but have found themselves in the position that they don't have adequate capital reserves to invest in the tracking technology demanded by the bulk of small business shippers. Their tracking service is more "door to door" and not able to provide in-route information."

They have enough money to waste on two law enforcement entities, gps tracking, and management bonuses. They don't have enough money for the essentials. Average age of the letter carrier's vehicles is 15 years. Potter will resign once he had sucked every last dime he can out of the Postal Service. By the way, his father was a Postmaster in New York city and greased the wheels for his son.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the candidate OWNED by the unions is currently in office, thus congress, with his approval, will just bail-out these lazy USPW union thugs, both current and retired?

It's the state pension plans that are the real bitch. I read yesterday that California need $100 BILLION for their CALPERS obligations.

$100 BILLION.

Good-****ing-luck-with-that guys.

My sis works in the schools in California. Wonder how much she knows about this CALPERS debacle. She has 28 years in now. Should she retire now or wait?

When I was a kid, it cost 5 cents to mail a letter. I'll bet by the time I die, it will be a dollar.

Luke:

Have your sister check with her school district office regarding how the district retirement plans are handled. Many (most?, all?) California teacher pensions are covered/managed by STRS (State Teachers Retirement System), which is separate from CALPERS.

According to my ex-wife, who just retired as a teacher, STRS doesn't have anywhere near the CALPERS issues and is in very good financial shape. (Can't vouch for the accuracy, though, just passing on what I was told.)



Poorsaver:

Are you planning on checking out relatively soon, then?

It is only pensions that get hurt by less people paying in. It does the same to health care less employees paying in and more draw due to the hospitals charging more to the remaining that have insurance. Workmen's comp is another major disaster looming. This is what a jobless recovery really brings.

How long has it been since new employees were offered the pension plan at the USPS, 20 years? And they still can't make it. What does that tell you?

It's a great idea for the USPS to pre-fund retirement obligations - that way they know ahead of time they'll be able to meet their future obligations. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that these funds aren't locked up in a vault somewhere but maybe perhaps likely have been borrowed by the federal government - just like the federal government has been borrowing from the social security surplus all these years. So when the time comes to pay out these benefits - guess who's going to pay them? Or, more importantly, will they ever be paid at all?

http://www.dmnews.com/USPS-looks-for-leg....

198% increase for workmen's comp!

Gen,

Do you know if the postal services pension plan is payed by the 'Office of Personel Management' like all other gov employees? If so, are they the only US gov branch that has to pay in, because they generate income? If so, then wouldn't that put the taxpayer on the hook for a lot more?

Like the newspaper business, they weren't ready for the internet delivering most of what they carry for free. The thought of 700,000 retired USPW workers going "postal" is not pretty.

Luke,

Tough call on your sister's sit. Of course, one would need to know much more about her current financial standing.

But given that I'm inclinded to believe that Cailfornia is, in fact, bankrupt, she should retire sooner, rather than later.

Then again, what is stopping CALPERS from cutting back on her pension even when she is retired? I mean that is a possibility given the fact their in the hole for .1 Trillion dollars.

Luke

Tell sis to keep working. They will throw the pensioners under the bus when it's all said and done. Better to pay current employess rather than waste the money paying people who don't work for the company anymore, and are not paying into the system. If I were a criminal...I mean politician, it's what I would do when my options have run out.

A great deal of the issue at hand has to do with H.R. 22 and its passage before 10/09 so as to afford the PO the opportunity restructure their retiree health care obligation.This does NOT bail anything out and is at no cost to the tax payer.

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I have to wonder what the APWU (the largest postal-workers union involved, an affiliate of the AFL-CIO) along with the NALC...

Swap "APWU" & "NALC" and you are correct Genesis.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, the candidate OWNED by the unions is currently in office, thus congress, with his approval, will just bail-out these lazy USPW union thugs, both current and retired?

Unfortunately, the NALC at least{APWU??} supported Obama as a secondary candidate only after Clinton folded. I am also ashamed to say the least, that this is true as a dues paying NALC Union Steward.Top Union leadership does know when to keep their mouth shut and our money in the bank concerning politicians.
When will labor ever support Republicans? ...and Why?
"OWNED by the unions" sounds like a throw back to forgone days. Any objective observer can see what disdain Obama has for working men & women otherwise known as the middle class.
"Meet the new boss,,,,,,Same as the old boss" sound familiar?

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lazy USPW union thugs, both current and retired?

I currently work 10 to 12 hour days,6 days a week and have done so for as long as I can remember. I've got 23 years with the postal service. We've always been short handed running what most consider a skeleton crew.We "pivot"{routes with no carrier for the day} at least 10 routes a day from a total of 57 at my station.Some days its 15 & 17.Most zip code zones don't have 15 routes if that gives you any perspective.As in, you have 40 letter carriers reporting for work today with 57 routes to carry.How do you accomplish this?
Rain, scorching shine,sleet ,snow, and VERY dark of night,6 days a week.
I can welcome anyone to hire on as a TE{temporary employee}for $20+ an hour next week,any week,with union rights for FREE if you so desire to not pay union dues and cowboy or cowgirl the **** UP and show me just how lazy I am.
And before you leave you will know 1st hand what Federal magistrates have deemed a "hostile work environment", really is.And you will also know what a real union steward is good for.

Collective bargaining is Management's creation as content and well paid work forces do NOT pool their financial resources accordingly.That fat piece of **** crying before CONgress should feel right at home.
Their are no civil servants in management,and I don't expect anyone in this day and time to even know what a civil servant is.Without them, you can kiss your legitimate idea of America good bye.

With the baby boomers just starting to retire, (a lot of them earlier then expected due to job losses) I figure a lot of these pension funds only have 2-3 years before reality sets in, and they can't meet their obligations.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that all of this is going to end very badly.

Do you think the government will step in and pay for all federal and state pensions? A default on a federal pension is all but the same as a default on any other federal note, right?