No, There Is Not a New Bull Market
The Market Ticker ® - Commentary on The Capital Markets
Posted 2009-04-30 09:28
by Karl Denninger
in Editorial
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No, There Is Not a New Bull Market
 

C'mon guys.

The callers are all out this morning. 

Jesus, can we have a bit of reality?  There are a few listings of actual ALT-A mortgage defaults out there on structured deals, where its easy to get the numbers.

They're running anywhere from 35-50% with fairly tight clustering, so ~40ish percent is about right.

These are 60 day+ delinquencies, which means they're not someone who missed a payment or two; they are people who can't restructure because they're severely underwater and would have to bring tens of thousands of dollars (which they do not have) to the closing table.

90% of those loans are going to foreclose.  This is a fairly representative look at the 2006 and 2007 production in the "ALT-A" (Option ARM and Liar Loan) space, which was 30-40% of the market during those two years.  These foreclosures have not yet happened but they will, and so will their economic impact.  That's a certainty over the next 6-12 months.

All this "new bull market" nonsense is crap. 

Pure, unadulterated crap.

What we've got going on in the market is massive short-covering that is driving prices higher along with people in the media that are lying outright.

Look, the law of mean reversion has not been repealed and neither has the fact that one pays for forward and sustainable earnings when one buys stock.

ACTUAL P/Es are off the charts stupid.  If you look at the various market data pages you will see this note that "Forward 12 months" is based on some estimate from one firm or another.

The problem is the estimates.  They're still way too high.  Does anyone remember last spring when everyone was saying that the S&P 500 would have $100 in cash earnings by this year?  Did it?

Past performance is no guarantee of future results but when you make enough bad calls you should be ordered out of the pool before your sharts turn into a biological contamination disaster.

I said quite some time ago that I expected this sort of rally, and in fact I still think we are going to get some sort of pullback before the 'final thrust" higher - but there is a decent chance that we got the pullback two weeks ago, it was weak, and we're now going to make that next thrust NOW.  I cover this stuff nightly in the videos on Tickerforum (for Gold Donors) with my commentary being tailored for short-term trading, not longer-term investing.  Drop on in if you'd like to see 'em.

The point for longer-term investors, however, is risk .vs. reward. 

Consider this: If 666 was either "a" or "the" bottom on the SPX, how much further is it likely to run this year?

You've had a 32% run.  If we were to get a 50% run you'd be up around 1,000 on the SPX.  Possible?  Sure. 

But if you're a long-term investor and got trapped here's the question you need to be asking yourself:

Are you willing to risk losing half (from here) in order to capture (another) 13% gain (again, from here.)

That is always the question you need to be considering - all investments must be looked at from today and this is the only question you ask:

At today's price, would I buy this position?

If the answer is "no" you sell it.  Period.

As things stand today sitting in cash, in terms of house prices, is actually appreciating. The same is true of the price of many other capital goods.  That's deflation, which takes the "inflation penalty" off the table - at least for right now.

For those who are trapped I see this as a tremendous opportunity to scale out of positions that you should have sold in early 2008.

If we really do get the proper "buy signals" for a new bull market, then we do.  But before I would be willing to jump on that I'd have to see evidence that total debt load is coming down and coverage (that is, the ability to make the payments) is improving. 

So far there is no such evidence and the above statistical information makes clear that the "mortgage mess", despite all the crooners, is nowhere near over.

 

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User Info No, There Is Not a New Bull Market in forum [Market-Ticker]
Snowman
Posts: 1798
Incept: 2009-03-09
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avoiding yellow snow
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bottlewasher, I think the correct term is not "No, this is not a new bull market", but "Yes, This is a new Bull**** Market".
Cabbage_the_cat
Posts: 76
Incept: 2009-03-28
Green
Atlanta, GA
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Thanks KD!!!

I feel less crazy after reading that.
Gmak
Posts: 10179
Incept: 2007-07-27
Green
Re-inventing the future at the speed of time.
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Agreed. But we said the same thing in 1999 and in 2006 - 2008, and I am having flashbacks even as I type.

The point is: do you want to be right or be successful (make money). Right now, the trend is clearly on the side of the angels and flying higher. If the MSM is going to pump this, you know that retail may just jump in. Ride the current with stops above break even, no?

Look how SPX just jumped over the resistance at 883 /884. The collective market is gunning for 900 and may just make it. Why not try the long with a stop just below SPX = 883?

Jinxx0r
Posts: 4230
Incept: 2007-08-10
Silver
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Quote:
An oil prospector, moving on to his heavenly reward, was met by St.Peter with some bad news. "You're qualified for residence, " St. Peter said, "but as you can see, the compound for oil men is
packed. There's no way to squeeze you in."

After thinking for a moment, the prospector asked if he might say just four words to the present occupants. That seemed harmless to St. Peter, so the prospector cupped his hands and yelled, "Oil discovered in Hell."

Immediately the gate to the compound opened and all the oil men marched out to head for the nether regions. Impressed, St. Peter invited the prospector to move in and make himself comfortable. But
the prospector paused, then said:

"On second thought, I think I'll go along with the rest of the boys. There might be some truth to that rumor after all."
Gmak
Posts: 10179
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Re-inventing the future at the speed of time.
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Thanks Jinxx0r. smiley
Wisc-xc
Posts: 5524
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outside chicago
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If enough of the bad debt can get sequestered in a quasi govt holding acct vis a vis PPiP, etc, and the cost of govt borrowing stays range bound--manageable--then, ****, maybe this baby can mimmick the APPEARANCE of one last bullishesk gasp of life.

It also doesn't hurt that global debt merchants--eg, central bankers--are more about greed than nationalistic allegiances: think cooperation among thieves.

Of course the above does little to change the balance sheets of over extended consumers, which then brings us to the proverbial pushing on a string.

The big picture is not about bullish anything from here on out, but rather a transfer of ultimate bagholder to the taxpayer in a systematic ultimate financial meltdown, which has yet to fully play itself out. In short there can be no new bull market without j6p going along for the ride, and as I see it there's little chance of that happening for a long long time.

Wisc-xc
Posts: 5524
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outside chicago
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One more thing. IMHO this latest monster rally is primarily a function of the PPIP. If somehow that program fails we'll be at 500 SP points in a heartbeat.
Phirang
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Flogging a "little person"
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This whole thing is PPIP: it's why CMBX AAA rallied so hard.


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I'm not special, and I am not likely to accomplish anything extraordinary in my life. If you are reading this comment, the case is most likely that neither will you. http://www.cracked.com/article_18544_how-the-karate-kid-ruined-modern-world.html
Mo
Posts: 12158
Incept: 2007-06-26
Silver
Pa.
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Quote:
The big picture is not about bullish anything from here on out, but rather a transfer of ultimate bagholder to the taxpayer in a systematic ultimate financial meltdown, which has yet to fully play itself out.


American taxpayers will NEVER pay this bill. It just won't happen. There would be a revolution if they raised taxes to the onerous levels required to pay it.

This is about shifting the debt to the federal government and then defaulting.

Default would have severe implications if the government currently in power cared about retaining national sovreignty. But they don't. They'll just move onto a global currency and sacrifice our sovreignty. They've been doing that slowly for 20 years anyway.

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Welcome to Pottersville
Snowman
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Durden has a real gem today, I liked it so much I read it over and over.
http://zerohedge.blogspot.com/
Snowman
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Jinxx0r
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inline
Lplate
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Gold
Australia
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thanks KD
Chassa
Posts: 1436
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Gen - agree. Seems to me that the outlook for 'hard' (real) assets is unchanged.
Only the funny munny stuff going up.

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The king has said...... he’s gonna put a tax on tea
And that’s the reason .....y'all americans drink cof-fee
Are you going to the partay?
Going to the boston tea partay?
Irishsamurai
Posts: 1150
Incept: 2008-11-03
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GA
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The amazing part with this continued rally is:

DOLLAR - UP
10Y - UP
EQUITIES - UP


The laws of gravity have been re-defined!


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“Why is it the ship beats the waves when the waves are so many and the ship is one? The reason is that the ship has a purpose.” - Churchill
Reza30
Posts: 289
Incept: 2009-02-15

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Investors (aka gamblers) are too high on Fed comments as usual--"they don't feel a thing" as illustrated.

KD, not even Chrysler bankruptcy seems to make a difference.
Folks, Chrysler is the third largest employer in the country. How do you think this will change the game?

The swine flu is also spreading like wild fire.

inline

Randy123
Posts: 5785
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Earth
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Now trotting out dow 10k banners on CNBC. Boy there are going to be a lot of pretty unhappy people by the fall.

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China is the Enemy. Wake Up.

New Normal. Same As The Old Awful.
Themortgagedude
Posts: 8849
Incept: 2007-12-17
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saint louis
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So methinks its time to short the phonebook. I've said it before and prudently sat on the sidelines. Except for a small position in retirement account in SDS and TBT I have remained flat. This irrational exhuberance in the face of GDP numbers and Chrysler really is incredible. It just seems that this is not only shorts covering but also the sheep who finally pulled out deciding to get back in. And if this plays out as I believe we'll have that Chrysler Building stuck so far up J6P's ass that they will never come back to the market. I'm staying with my idea that this will mirror the GD1 market and its time to go look at the charts again. I just think that human nature hasn't changed much and we are doomed to repeat history.

If I'm wrong could someone send me some lube for that Chrysler Building cause I'm thinking of placing a sizable bet down.

May the force be with me.

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
Wineaux
Posts: 533
Incept: 2009-03-23
Green A True American Patriot!
pure Liquid pleasure
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Reza30 - Your post made me have an eerie flashback to Feb 2000 when the Nasdaq was at 4600+. One last gigantic gasp and then

smiley

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What wine goes with unemployment?

Etz
Posts: 13890
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Silver
LA
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This is the kind of stupidity that drives this market,
Quote:
Cummins Inc. posted a 96% plunge in first-quarter earnings on Thursday, slammed by a hefty restructuring charge relating to job cuts as well as the effects of the global recession on demand for the company's diesel engines.

But Wall Street had expected even steeper declines, which helped to push the stock up 3.3% to $34.60. The shares have gained 30% so far this year.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Cu....


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Legal chicanery and beneficent darkness are the banker's stoutest allies - F.Pecora.

Asianbull
Posts: 2278
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Banned
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Except a slew of secondaries next week.

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The root cause of all the world's problems is inflation. The only sound money in the world is commodities.
Fyoupaulson
Posts: 19
Incept: 2008-12-30
Green
Chicago, IL
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I'm still trying to figure out why CMBS has rallied so much. SPG and VNO have been off the charts over the last month. Are that many people covering their shorts? Both of these companies are up to their eyeballs in debt and are total ****. SPG offering more equity just dilutes what little earnings they have more by paying out dividends. My June (VNO) & July (SPG) puts are worth nothing now.

;(

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An old Russian proverb, "Dwell on the past, and you will lose an eye. Ignore the past, and you will lose both of them."
Reza30
Posts: 289
Incept: 2009-02-15

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This "human behavior" is very reminiscent of the wildebeest crossing the Mara river.

They hesitate at the water's edge, unsure of what to do. Then the first few jump in, and then more. Pretty soon the whole herd follows, believing that the deadly lions and crocodile don't even exist.

Then the first one gets caught; the rest panic, and many die in the ensuing stampede.

It is unbelievable how Wall Street consistently preys on the same victims over and over again who are supposed to be sophisticated humans: start trumpeting that there is a new bull market; make the first few jump into the market, and then steal their money one by one.

inline

Themortgagedude
Posts: 8849
Incept: 2007-12-17
Green
saint louis
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Just did some quick calculations and in the GD the market traced back to 77% of its previous value. That would take us to 10,903 - I don't think we go that high but historically it says we can. That's a whole lot of Chrysler Building to take up the ass if you're short. I'm of the opinion that I'll short the phonebook at a higher level or try to jump in after it breaks.

There is just so much bad news out there I don't think you can call it investing to be long or short right now. Its just pure speculation until we see bare bank*****. Myself I think I'll sit this one out for a while longer. But its about time to get the rest of mrsmortgagedudes retirement accounts into cash.

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I'm already visualizing you with duct tape over your mouth.
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